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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-05-2005, 05:26 PM Thread Starter
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omg.....pain

so on July 26th of this year I went down HARD, snapping my collarbone. For someone that has worked out since he was 15 years old, the 3 months I had to take off were a serious struggle...

3 weeks ago I started back at the gym. Honestly, in that 3 weeks most of my size has come back (I didnt loose that much to begin with honestly) but the strength is not even close to being there. I went from pushing 365 to barely being able to push 135 15 times...

So, in these 3 weeks I've been progressing well. Tri's, back, bi's have all been coming back nicely and I can see the gains in strength every time I workout. However, shoulders and chest remain a constant struggle. I've been able to do two 45's on either side for bench on hammer strength equipment, and am feeling good about the progress. Yet, friday midway through the workout I went to the flat bench....... I put 185 on there and experienced some SERIOUS discomfort in my collarbone. 185???? that is pussy weight :laugh

I can only do what my body allows me. I guess I'll have to stick to machines for a while. Free weights make it hurt


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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-05-2005, 05:53 PM
The answer? Simple: 42
 
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Muscle memory comes back quickly. However, even with a bone injury such as that, you have a lot of connective tissue that is damaged. Low weight, higher reps KD.


BTW, did you ever try doing the DB press I mentioned?
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-05-2005, 06:21 PM
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I snapped my left collar bone last summer. I still have some strength issues, but I don't work out regularly.

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If people don't regulate themselves, others will do it for them.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-06-2005, 11:03 AM
 
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Dont get so hung up on weight. If pushing past a certain weight hurts drop back a little and concentrate on slower more controlled reps. Its amazing how heavy you can make a little weight when you really try to make it hard.

Try TRUE 2 second eccentric and 2 second concentric (lowering and lifting the weight) phases.

This isn't the optimal way to lift for strength or power but it will work the muscle really well while minimizing the stress on the joints. and trust me you can get plenty strong. I train pretty slow and contolled 90% of the time to maximize muscle damage and my training partner squated 745 for 4 yesterday not powerlifting weights but come on... who needs to squat 700lbs...

oh and STRETCH!!! Im sure you have a shit load of scar tissue in there. Stretch your chest (at least your chest you should stretch everything) out really really well. a little before A LOT after and as much as you cna every day. This will get some blood in there and break up the scar tissue. Scar tissue also slowly strangles tendons blood supplies so they dont heal as quickly after workouts, and this leads to bursitis and tendonitis.

NOt a long term fix but 800mg of ibuprofen before you workout will keep all your tendons and joints from getting overly riled up and inflammed. (Do not do it long term though)

Probably wouldn't hurt to increase your vitamin/mineral intake and make sure you are getting extra calcium and phosphorus.... and please dont rely on just dairy for this.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-06-2005, 11:05 AM
 
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Oh and since your injury warming up just became much much more important. Take as much time as you need to warm up and work your way into working weights.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-06-2005, 02:20 PM
The answer? Simple: 42
 
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Stone, one day in chat I had recommended he drop training with the barbell and concentrate on lighter weight DB's.

My thought on this was to allow him to work out with lighter weights focusing on form and function without having the fixation of the bar as well as getting some stretching in on the motion. I was thinking of how the BB tends to keep your body in a fixed position on holding the bar, while DB's would allow some additional range of motion and work on the stabilizing muscles.

My thoughts were to use 45# or less db's.

Thoughts?
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-06-2005, 03:19 PM
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stretching? warming up (warm up sets?)? cardio?

what are those? :



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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 07:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjorn
Stone, one day in chat I had recommended he drop training with the barbell and concentrate on lighter weight DB's.

My thought on this was to allow him to work out with lighter weights focusing on form and function without having the fixation of the bar as well as getting some stretching in on the motion. I was thinking of how the BB tends to keep your body in a fixed position on holding the bar, while DB's would allow some additional range of motion and work on the stabilizing muscles.

My thoughts were to use 45# or less db's.

Thoughts?
Probably a great idea. The dumbell will give you lots more wiggle room so you can modify your wrist/elbow position to relieve stress where it hurts. In a rehab situation I would also be a proponent of doing some swiss ball work. I think these balls are VERY overplayed but they do have a useful (if not limited) place.

Do some flys, chest, and shoulder presses with a swiss ball between your shoulder blades (for chest) or just sitting on it (for shoulders)


Jsut dont push it or you'll hurt it again and hurt it worse.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 07:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxcorey
stretching? warming up (warm up sets?)? cardio?

what are those? :


Techniques used by those that are strong and in shape.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 08:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slcmuffinboi
Techniques used by those that are strong and in shape.


:laugh :laugh
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 09:00 AM
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lol stone. just never done either *shrugs* i stretch only when my muscles are tight while lifting, but that's it. warming up=warm up sets


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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 11:32 AM
 
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Yeah what else would warming up for weight lifting be besides warm up sets??

You really should stretch. its good for you.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 11:36 AM
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i know it's good for me mostly in that it stretches the membranes around the muscles and allows for growth, but as for keeping injuries away to date nothing is proven. no doubt i should do it though, but *shrugs* i should do cardio also haha

with an injury though stretching is mandatory.

stone a quick ?. how long do you lift each day normally? during a session? i keep it under 40min right now since i'm natural. you heard anything new on working out over a set time and your cortisol levels getting too high to make it very beneficial?


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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 05:18 PM
The answer? Simple: 42
 
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Who says you can't go over 40 minutes without being beneficial? IMO, it's a bunch of BS. 75 minutes is about the longest I've heard before you start getting diminishing returns. 90 minutes, and you've done tapped yourself too much.

Of course, factors need to be taken into account:

- Experience of the weightlifter
- Body composition/type (ecto/meso/endo)
- Type of workout (is it a HIIT, PowerLift, SuperSet, or Poser workout)
- Nutrition of the person
- Other things to which I'm forgetting about, and I'm deliberately leaving out "supplementation" whether it be legal or illegal

For myself, my typical workouts have ranged around 45-75 minutes not counting cardio when I did that. My warm-up sets are included in this, and are about 65% of what my last set's weight will be.

Given that information, I will say that I've had my best results when I'm training for a specific reason such as a competition or when I was going for my Black Belts. If I was just working out to workout, such as for general fitness, I was kind of lazy and didn't put as much effort into my training. So, my results were slow to appear. My current routine is a 3x/week PL/Oly workout. I've had PHENOMINAL results from it. Why? Because I'm super dedicated to it, I'm training for a reason, and I've shocked the shit out of my body on this training cycle. Who knows what my coach has in store for me after this one, as he said this is just the beginning. For the record, I've also packed on over 10 pounds since I started this routine.

Corey, here's my take on your situation. Don't worry about anything beyond eating right, and supplementing with nothing more than Whey protein, multi-vits, vitamin-C, Zinc, Magnesium and glucosamine. Add in creatine if you want, if it gives you benefits. If not, don't use it.

Stop worrying about what prohormones, or 'roids, HGH or whatever others may or may be taking. Train until you plateau, and then figure out where and what you need to break the plateau.

I've been working out for a number of years now, and have continued to gain without taking any hormones, 'roids, HGH or anything that's supposedly a "super gainer." It's pretty much been nothing more than what I mentioned above: Multi-vits, creatine, protein, zinc, magnesium, Vit-C, Omega-3, glucosamine and periodically some extra iron.

You're in your mid 20's. You've got a lot of years to go yet before you'll reach your max potential. When you've capped your potential, then look beyond.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 09:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxcorey
i know it's good for me mostly in that it stretches the membranes around the muscles and allows for growth, but as for keeping injuries away to date nothing is proven. no doubt i should do it though, but *shrugs* i should do cardio also haha

with an injury though stretching is mandatory.

stone a quick ?. how long do you lift each day normally? during a session? i keep it under 40min right now since i'm natural. you heard anything new on working out over a set time and your cortisol levels getting too high to make it very beneficial?
Dude stretching is MUCH more important than just for stretching the fascia. Fascial stretching has NEVER been proven and is only theorized to work. It is thought as blasphemy by MANY.

THink about it.. If you are a wrestler, runner, NHB fighter, ballet dancer anything.. the mor flexible youa re the less chance you'll have you'll push your body past that tearing point. Stretching is of HUGE importance.

Example. You and I are wrestling you grab my leg and crank on it.. nothing happens because I"ve been stretching and can almost do the splits (I really can) but then I turn around and grab your leg and your groin rips right off the bone because I've pulled it past its flexibility threshold.

Now tell me flexiblity doesn't prevent injury.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 09:43 PM
 
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As for length of working out... Depends.. so many factors. Corey if youa re in there alone doing the High intensity low volume stuff you should be done in about 60 mins. I do pretty high volume stuff most of my reps are 15-50 I do 2 lifts each station most are supersetted. With one partner about 75 mins on the nose for everyday except arms. Arms is almost always 100 mins. (working on it though I think its too long and I cant see afterward im so spent)

What are you training for? Size? Strength? Leaning up? I think you said you want to harden up and put on a little size. You should probably be doing about 40 minutes lifting then 20 mins cardio if you want a well rounded physique. The rest will be taken care of with diet.

Dont believe all that BS about cardio cutting into yoru size gains. The healthiest body will respond the best. as long as you aren't doing marathon training or doing lots of high impact cardio that makes you sore the next day. getting yoru heart in tip top condition will only add to your gains.

So really It just depends on what you want to do.. Power training is done in a slower fashion its VERY intense for shorter intervals I think this taxes the nervous system less and you can go longer. Where as Circuit type training is a constant bombardment with very short rest intervals tends to tax body quicker.

By yourself if you go longer than 60-75 mins you arne't pushing hard enough. But I would say less than 45 mins in teh gym and you're leaving without getting everything you can.
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 09:56 PM
 
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Fjorn has great advice.
Do not even think about anything past FOOD before you start looking elsewhere for "help" I made it to 238lbs when I was 19 and competed at 195lbs when I was 20 thats when I won the natural overall. I was so far and away the biggest for my age anyone had ever seen I was pretty sure I was the man and had maxed out my natural potential. While I think I was sharper than most and had a decent grip on diet and training and was fortunate enough to have better than average genetics I still think I could have gone further naturally.
I think people REALLY have blinders on when it comes to performance enhancing drugs. They do not make you grow faster, some do help quite a bit with strength but I am growing at the same rate I was when I was natural. I've gained about 100lbs in 10 years of training thats 10lbs a year average with or without any help.
As I sit here I am the biggest I've ever been but im still only 20lbs heavier than I was when I was 19 and im 24.. and it wasn't until I was 21 that I joined the dark side. In the 3 years that I have been using I have put on probably 30lbs of muscle. I am leaner today than I was at 238 when I was 19 but thats still only 10lbs a year. I feel the biggest benefit I get from using is only when I am dieting and when natural as soon as the body sees a caloric deficit it sheds muscle like its no ones business but now I am able to diet down to a low bodyfat without sacrificing much muscle.

Especialy for what you are trying to accomplish Corey do not look towards other means for help. YOu'll gain probalby 20lbs right off the bat but you'll look puffy and it will only be more glycogen/water in teh msucles and water under your skin.


YOu ever wonder why ding dongs ALWAYS refer to drugs as "cutters" and "gainers" and yet the "cutters" are 2,3,4x as anabolic?? its because the drugs dubbed Gainers make you retain water like rosy O'donell and therefor you put on weight but its really not muscle.

Trenbolone for example one of the most anabolic synthetic hormones known to man... Its known as a cutter because you only gain maybe 1 true lb a month.. it doesn't make you hold water so your only gaining muscle... thats why its so slow..

If your ducks are in a row corey there is no reason you cant gain 5lbs the first couple months training and 2lbs every month thereafter for a year. Using expensive drugs will not help until you are past your body's genetic set point for sustaining msucle mass. then taking drugs only puts muscle on at the natural rate.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 10:01 PM
 
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Sorry i always feel like I talk about myself too much but just trying to prove the example. I admit im a little conceited but I hate when people talk about themselves nonstop so I try to keep to a minimum.
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 10:17 PM
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no biggy man, i gotta stay focussed if i'm gonna stick w/ this


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