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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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Ditching pre-sleep protein

I've been trying to cut down on my food intake and attempt to get my body fat down as low as i can...

The meal i've found easiest to eliminate has been my pre-sleep protein... basically water, a dash of milk (yes, i know, but i can't stand the protein just with water) and protein powder (info on protein powder)

however, this has left me wondering about the impact of getting rid of what i understand to be an important protein load, whilst i'm still training pretty hard?

don't want to fuck myself up trying to get lean

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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 07:01 PM
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training hard for what??? some event or just to get the hail damage out of your ass?




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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 07:06 PM
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Nothing wrong with a little pre-bed protein. I don't use a protein shake. Instead, I'll just drink a 20oz glass of 2% milk and call it a night.

I find the protein shakes to be a little to bland with just water as well. I use milk in mine, and it adds a little more protein into it as well. Best I've had for flavor with milk was either strawberry (like a strawberry milkshake) or cookies 'n cream.

Right now, I've got a tub of rocky road protein powder that's okay. Not the best, but I'll mix in a teaspoon of orange flavored metamucil and it's not bad at all.
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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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what i'm trying to get at shawn, is that it's the easiest to ditch, and lowers my food/carb/cal/etc intake for the day... but am i doing myself a disservice doing so?

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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 07:25 PM
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Not at all Mick. But, IMO it also depends on when you workout. If you workout just prior to going to bed, then you'll want it as your post workout shake.

But, if it's not your post workout shake, I think you'd be fine by dropping it. Might want to experiment a bit and see. Or, you could replace it with a small glass of milk for a couple of weeks and see what it does.

A lot of people subscribe to the thought of not eating after say 6:30. Or, if they do it's a very light snack. Such as a spoonful of cottage cheese, or something like that. But, IMO, I think that's only beneficial if you're trying to bulk up. If you're trying to slim down, I feel it won't cause any damage to you.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
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thanks luv

having a stable workout/dinner time is a bit of a hinderance atm... my missus gets home from work at somewhat irregular hours, but we still try and have dinner together most nights...

nights where i workout before dinner, and have dinner around 1930-2000, i reckon i can pretty much skip the pre-sleep protein

if i'm having dinner before gym 1800-1830, then i've tended to have my post workout shake...

just wanted to ensure that i wasn't losing out on dropping it

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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinn
training hard for what??? some event or just to get the hail damage out of your ass?




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i'm training up to beat the hell outta you

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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Phat
thanks luv

having a stable workout/dinner time is a bit of a hinderance atm... my missus gets home from work at somewhat irregular hours, but we still try and have dinner together most nights...

nights where i workout before dinner, and have dinner around 1930-2000, i reckon i can pretty much skip the pre-sleep protein

if i'm having dinner before gym 1800-1830, then i've tended to have my post workout shake...

just wanted to ensure that i wasn't losing out on dropping it

This looks pretty good as it is IMO. Since I started working out in the evening, I do the same thing. When we eat as a family, it's about 1800 which is my non-workout evenings. If I workout, others eat, then I won't eat until post workout, which is usually about 2030-2100.

Both days, I have that glass of milk before la-la land so my tummy doesn't get upset.
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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Phat
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinn
training hard for what??? some event or just to get the hail damage out of your ass?




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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 10:24 PM
 
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Your bedtime protein isn't by far your most important meal you should concentrate very closely on pre and post workout meals.

Preworkout have a little protein and a little simple carb (apples or grapfruit work awesome) Some people love bannanas but they peter out quickly as they digest quicker (from my experience I dont have any scientific evidence just my theory). Where you get your pre workout protein and how much is a personal preference some people really have a hard time training with anything in there stomach. In this situation I would recommend a little amino acid supplement mixed in with whatever you are drinking while you workout.
I personally eat a full meal protein+fiberous carbs 1 hour preworkout then 15 mins before grapefruit w/ some vitamins ephedra, then while I workout I have 1/2 gallon of crystal light mixed with 20 grams Branch Chain Amino Acids, 30mL Glycerol, and 1tbsp honey. I work on this while I workout if I dont finish it I dont finish its not a big deal I just work on it all night. I usualy drink about 2/3 while I workout though.

Immediatly after I have 60g Hydolyzed WHey Protein (fancy high grade hydroblasterifimophication or whatever is probably a lot of fluff but I get it free so what the hell) any whey is probably fine as long as its not upsetting your tum. I then take my creatine, L-glutamine, glutamine peptides and Silymarin (liver detox).

1 hour post workout I have 20oz Flank Steak and 1cup Brown Rice.

I would probably be fine calling it a day at this meal as I train at 1700 take my post workout at about 18-1900.

Although now I am taking 20egg whites w/ 1tbsp metamucil at bed time 2300 hours. If I dont eat right before bed I wake up hungry and have to eat around 2am. With this meal I can make it until 7am usually.

LP to answer your question I think you would be fine to drop the bedtime meal. Try to keep everything else static and try to gauge its impact. If you are simply leaning up and feeling fine then great! do away with it. If you do feel yourself hungry more often try to fill the void by eating a more substantial postworkout meal maybe.

FJorn HAHA is that rocky road protein the protein in the purple jugs?pro Complex?? is this it?? I did the EXACT same thing added orange flavored Metamucil to it.. its pretty tasty this way I agree. Thats funny.

lately I just do vanilla with a splash of vanilla extract and some orange metamucil its like a poor mans orange julious.
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 10:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slcmuffinboi
LP to answer your question I think you would be fine to drop the bedtime meal. Try to keep everything else static and try to gauge its impact. If you are simply leaning up and feeling fine then great! do away with it. If you do feel yourself hungry more often try to fill the void by eating a more substantial postworkout meal maybe.
thx stone

seems like i should be ok if i'm having it only after working out

been getting some good weight losses, and by the looks of things fat losses... just trying to make sure i'm not gunna lose too much bulk by dropping it :

was feeling a bit flat today, but feel heaps better after my lunchtime run...

i've finally got my eating/exercise balanced out at

0800 breakfast (up n go)
1100 morning tea (water, milk, protein powder, w/ banana, yoghurt, flax seed oil)
1200 45 minute jog
1400 lunch (mountain bread, sweet chilli sauce, swiss cheese)
1700 afternoon tea (mountain bread, vegemite)
1830 dinner (noodle soup/omlette/veges)
gym
2100 protein (water, milk, protein powder)

or

0800 breakfast
1100 morning tea
1200 45 minute jog
1400 lunch
1700 afternoon tea
gym
2000 dinner

about the worst i'm dipping into if i'm feeling flat is a iced green tea w/ a teaspoon or two of raw sugar

even cut beer out of the diet in the short term... it's been replaced with vodka, soda and diet lime cordial...

i'll cut some more weight off, but grow a vagina at this rate

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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 11:29 PM
 
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I thought this thread is about you won't swallow anymore before sleep...



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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 11:51 PM Thread Starter
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wondered how long that comment would take

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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-07-2005, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Phat
wondered how long that comment would take
Me too...........figures Val would bring it up.............


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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-08-2005, 02:20 AM
 
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jeezus I am gonna owe stone a mintaure fortune to get me all healthy and bulked up again.

do you take smal incremental payments ona sub bi monthly deal stone? or whenever I have cash laying around spare which is close to never?

I know........................

but wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there is good news..........I have a job again!!!!!!!
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-08-2005, 04:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slcmuffinboi
some people really have a hard time training with anything in there stomach. In this situation I would recommend a little amino acid supplement mixed in with whatever you are drinking while you workout.
When I workout, I need to have at least three hours prior to eating where I haven't eaten anything. It's weird, as I used to be able to workout within an hour of eating a very small light meal, but about 3 years ago that changed. Typically, it's about 2 liters of water for me while working out. I'm almost sweating both of them out of me as it is, so it's a 1-1 I think. Occasionally I'll do Gatorade as a post-workout sipping drink after my shake or meal.


Quote:
FJorn HAHA is that rocky road protein the protein in the purple jugs?pro Complex?? is this it?? I did the EXACT same thing added orange flavored Metamucil to it.. its pretty tasty this way I agree. Thats funny.

lately I just do vanilla with a splash of vanilla extract and some orange metamucil its like a poor mans orange julious.
Nah, it's just the instantized Optimum Nutrition whey. The pro-complex is too expensive for me, so I settle for the $30 5.5 gallon jugs. I've been mixing orange Metamucil to my protein shakes for a while, and some flavors just don't go together! Namely strawberry and orange. Ewww....

The all time best tasting protein shakes I've ever made was a Strawberry-creme flavored powder mixed with my creatine. On top of that, I would add in a scoop of pure unflavored whey extract and whole milk. Oh, was simply the best! Was like being a kid sitting at the bar with an old-tyme milk shake in front of you!
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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-08-2005, 11:28 AM
 
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i didnt read the entire thread but it boils down to when your workouts take place. if your working out after dinner then you certainly want to have a shake before you go to sleep. you do most of your rebuilding while your sleeping so you want that protein in your system. if your working out early in the day then you can get your daily intake of protein no problem.. the body can only assimilate about 50 grams of protein per meal so any more than that gets pissed out or stored as fats. and for hypertrophy you need about 1 gram of protein per lb. of bodyweight a day..
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-08-2005, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmfgsxr
the body can only assimilate about 50 grams of protein per meal so any more than that gets pissed out or stored as fats. and for hypertrophy you need about 1 gram of protein per lb. of bodyweight a day..
Overall a good post, but I disagree with these last two statements.

There has been no scientific proof to say that there is a cap of being able to utilize more than 50 grams per meal. The thought used to be 30 grams previously, but it's moved up now I see. Yes, there are variables in terms of body composition, but we have as of yet to find the maximum amount of protein that can be used without any going to waste.

Also, I disagree with the 1 gram per pound rule as that's variable on training styles and bodytypes.
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-08-2005, 12:44 PM
 
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you bring up good points.. ive been in the game for about 15 years now. minored in fitness and nutrition in college. the 50 grams per meal was the standard when i was in college. also, when i was in college the norm was 1 gram of protein/kg of bodyweight for hypertrophy, which is a hell of a lot less protein intake. from what ive read numerous places the general "rule of thumb" is 1 gram of protein/lb. of bodyweight.. this will work on average for most people into general fitness/ weight lifting (imo). hard core bodybuilders, professional athletes, and guys who are running gear will require a lot more protein. i only threw that out there as a basic guideline.
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-08-2005, 03:42 PM
 
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BMFgsxer its good to hear someone with some acedemic background that isn't telling me how detrimental protein is.
I had an intro to nutrition class when I was a freshman and we had to do our BMI calculations as an assignment and I got into a little spat with the professor because I refused to "improve" my BMI. So from there on I have always been skeptical about what is taught in nutrition classes.

From my experience and what I tell people is the same thing a middle of the road figure is 1g/lb and depending on the person it can go up or down..

BM pop your head in here more often It sounds like you could throw in some good pointers for us.
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