Yamaha Yamaha Sport Bike Discussion

 
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
 
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Question 2007 Yamaha YZF-R1: Illegal For Superbike?

2007 Yamaha YZF-R1: Illegal For Superbike?
by dean adams
Wednesday, October 11, 2006
The '07 R1 that Yamaha debuted this week looks to have all of the hardware and software a speed junkie would include on a list if he were building a machine to race in the Superbike class. The new R1 features titanium intake valves, fly by wire throttle, 178 horsepower, and a back-torque-limiting slipper clutch among other niceties.

It's a Superbike star out of the box. Too bad it's actually illegal for the class.

The 2006 AMA Superbike rule book as published in both paper and digital form specifically excludes variable length intake systems.

Under the section entitled EQUIPMENT STANDARDS BY ROAD RACE CLASS the rulebook states on page nine under the heading Fuel injection throttle body assemblies:

Variable-length fuel injection intake tract devices that function while the engine is operating are prohibited.

Clearly Yamaha's YCCI (Yamaha Chip Controlled-Intake) system is a functioning variable intake system.

Numerous calls to AMA Pro Racing Director of Technical Development Kevin Crowther have not been returned.

Yamaha has stepped into dangerous territory with this system because, unlike traction control which the AMA was never capable of regulating or policing, this system is easily identifiable hard parts that even a cave man technical inspector or bottom-rung dealer mechanic could identify.

And while trying to predict what a sanctioning body will do in the future is like trying to herd 100 cats, it would seem that there stands a decent chance of this Yamaha being allowed to race in Superbike with its variable intake system intact. A rule change might happen and would be based on the most easily-justifiable reason for a rule change: the currently banned equipment is now standard on a production streetbike.

Traction control was cleared for use in AMA Superbike after a decade or more of being banned. And at the time it was made legal, no street models homologated for Superbike featured user-actuated alternative engine mapping. What the Yamaha features in its intake tract used to be very expensive factory race kit material or MotoGP-spec equipment but is now availible to anyone who wants to buy an R1. It should be legal.

ENDS
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 09:57 AM
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Wow...I'm sure the AMA will change the rules.
post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 10:01 AM
 
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Good find! It will be interesting to see how the AMA handles this. Ducati is out next year... to loose Yamaha too....

I know there has been a lot of grumbling within the racing ranks as to how AMA does or doesn't enforce rules and make decisions. Too much screwing around and they'll end up with a fragmented series like CART did.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 10:08 AM
 
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Article has been updated... it has been cleared by the AMA just not communicated.

If its in Prod, it will be allowed to race.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
 
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Update

As found in Superbikeplanet.com


Update: The AMA's Crowther did phone back after this story was posted to say that a change to the Superbike rules regarding variable intake systems has been approved but not yet communicated. In layman's terms the new rule states that if the variable intake equipment does come on the streetbike, it is legal for the class. Good news as our resident gear-head looked over the loose specs for the '07 R1 and said it will probably roll to the grid with the flatest torque-curve in the Superbike class to date, which should help make it a contender out of the box.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 10:50 AM
 
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Glad to hear that. Would like to see a Yammie in the Superbike competition.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 11:29 AM
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Next year will be nice with Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawi, Honda, and possible MV racing Superbike.

Team Mladin/Spies will be hard to catch for sure.

I wish we could just keep things simple, but I know because of money and politics it isnt. Why can't it be this way?

Superbike: 1000cc's I-4's or twins (Factory Efforts)
Supersport: 600cc's I-4's or 750cc twins (Factory)

Superstock 1: 1000cc Privateer racing
Superstock 2: 600cc Privateer racing

FX: dump it, waste of time zzzzzz

This way, you can compete in the feeder classes to get to the big show. The big shows would have more meaning, because all the factories would be competing there. Instead, we have multiple efforts spread out among all these classes, with different factories choosing which class to dump their effort and R&D into so they can grab a championship (for advertising purposes).

Ah well, at least we have WSB and MotoGP.


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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 11:32 AM
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The Key here is they are referring to the rules from 2006 and not 2007



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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 11:33 AM
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^ Might just have add an 07 next to my 04 :


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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 06:20 PM
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wonder how many bikes were built off 06 ama rules? too bad they announce this after yami builds this...wonder if the other manufacturers made this and maybe more would have them on their bikes stock also?


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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxcorey View Post
wonder how many bikes were built off 06 ama rules? too bad they announce this after yami builds this...wonder if the other manufacturers made this and maybe more would have them on their bikes stock also?
The AMA is based off of Bikes you can buy at the dealers.... They will always include whatever they need to in the rules in order to make them comply whit the new bikes.

The AMA, Bike sales, and dealers all go hang in hand.

You don't see people whining about Suzuki having an adjustable three option map do you? Well it's not in the rules for 2006, but it will be soon. This will be a great addition for the track and racing alike I'm sure.



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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 06:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxcorey View Post
wonder how many bikes were built off 06 ama rules? too bad they announce this after yami builds this...wonder if the other manufacturers made this and maybe more would have them on their bikes stock also?
how many were built for sale to the public by manufacturers?

NONE
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 06:46 PM
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r1lover: i get that, but i figured they still had to stay in the rules. didn't know the rules would adapt to allow for anything that comes stock on a bike


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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 08:07 AM
 
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http://www.fim.ch/en/default.asp?item=26#


2.4.4.2 For 1000 cc Three- and Four cylinders
Variable length intake tract devices that function while the engine is operating are not allowed, unless such a system is use on the homologated
machine.


This is from the 2006 FIM regulations. If the AMA use the FIM regulations then there would not be any confusion. Yamaha have used these regs to build for 2007.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 07:21 PM
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well, i guess rules can change


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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-16-2007, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R1LOVER View Post
The AMA is based off of Bikes you can buy at the dealers.... They will always include whatever they need to in the rules in order to make them comply whit the new bikes.

The AMA, Bike sales, and dealers all go hang in hand.

You don't see people whining about Suzuki having an adjustable three option map do you? Well it's not in the rules for 2006, but it will be soon. This will be a great addition for the track and racing alike I'm sure.
I'm wondering if the 3-map system (poor-man's traction control) is going to be bitched about for Superstock, because it is a homogenized stock feature now on the zook.

-James
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-16-2007, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
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I'm wondering if the 3-map system (poor-man's traction control) is going to be bitched about for Superstock, because it is a homogenized stock feature now on the zook.
Maybe in a wet race? lol when the zooks go off and leave everyone?

If it is bitched about then people are just whining... I'm not sure it would be an advantage on the track..... but I could be wrong too.



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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-16-2007, 12:11 PM
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throttle control will do the same thing that the button will btw do realize it takes away 50rwhp LOL sorry but even in the wet that would make a 600cc bike more powerful. w/ wet tires i'm sure they still want more power than that...

just a guess though.


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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-17-2007, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxcorey View Post
throttle control will do the same thing that the button will btw do realize it takes away 50rwhp LOL sorry but even in the wet that would make a 600cc bike more powerful. w/ wet tires i'm sure they still want more power than that...

just a guess though.
That 3-position map thing allows them to load whatever maps they want though. The whole controversy about "traction control" was that they were doing it with the mapping. Not using the obvious traction-control things like the wheelspin sensors that the GP guys use that you can see when the bike is riding past, that tell the computer that the rear wheel is spinning up. The Suzuki mapping doesn't just de-tune it all the time. It looks for abrupt spikes in the RPM's, as a way of telling the computer that the rear wheel has lost traction (or you broke your chain LOL), and kills some spark momentarily to allow the rear wheel to regain traction. Kind of like ABS in reverse, how it pulses the brakes when they lock up, not just letting up on them completely. It lets up, then reapplies the brakes...if they lock again, it lets up again...faster than you can physically pump the pedal yourself.

Throttle control works, sure. But when you are riding a 200+ HP bike around a track at one of the highest levels of racing, trying to get every thousandth of a second faster you can around the track, and the rear starts to spin up, electronics can cut power faster than any human wrist can turn.

-James
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-18-2007, 10:26 AM
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nomadrip the problem is that right now from what i understand you can't load up new maps. there will be a unit you can install that will let you switch maps and it will take advantage of that button, but the k5 or k6 can do the same. it's just that on the k7 it already has a handy button, but that is all it will be used for. same for say nitrous, etc. when you're talking about aftermarket fuel maps, you'll need a new ecu or fuel controller and you'll just utilize that button, but it's nothing more than a 10 dollar switch you could buy and slap on the k5. the fuel controller i'm thinking of will work on the k5/k6 when it's released also. only nice thing is that the k7 has that button where you can use it to engage/disengage different things.

i don't see that as a huge help to racers though. they obviously will need a new fuel controller and when they install it then that button is dead unless you use the button for something, but then it's being used as just a button.

hope that makes sense. i know the fuel controller that is coming out that should kick ass can be installed on the k5/k6 also so obviously the button isn't needed. which leaves it open for boost control, nitrous, some awesome led fast and furuious lights, etc...


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