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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 02:02 AM Thread Starter
 
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bitching over the gas some more...

but read what they own....1800 square foot home, ford expiditions, porsche cayenne's.....shut the F up people and sell your gas guzzler and your oversized home..live closer to work....etc...people will never cease to amaze me


The rush for cheaper homes in the west Valley and Pinal County is catching up to some homeowners feeling the pangs of gasoline costs that have soared past $3 a gallon.

Their flight to affordability is now a struggle to make mortgage payments, as families drops hundreds of dollars per month more into gas tanks while enduring 100-mile roundtrip commutes for work, a skimpier quality of life, and anxieties over potentially losing what for most will be the biggest investment of their lifetime.

Pinching the few pennies they had between them, newlyweds Jennifer and Samuel Sayles moved from San Diego and bought their first home in late June in Gilbert.
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With precise budgeting and limiting personal spending to $40 each per week, they could balance on a thin financial margin for their 1,800-square-foot, $235,000 house - until gasoline prices ripped through the roof of their dreams.

"I've got a house for rent now," Jennifer Sayles, 21, said. "We want to avoid selling, that's our ultimate fear."

The young couple plan to put their home on the rental market and look to rent a small and cheap one-bedroom apartment closer to their jobs in downtown Phoenix.

Even with their fuel-efficient compact cars, the roughly $75 more per month for gas hurts their fragile budget.

Gasoline prices are increased about 50 percent Valley wide since July 1, according to the American Automobile Association's Phoenix office,

Still, prices would probably maintain current levels for months before significant effects are felt, said Jay Butler, director of the Arizona Real Estate Center at Arizona State University's Polytechnic campus.

"Probably right now there isn't much impact," Butler said. "If you live 'out there' you make tradeoffs. You may give up one trip a week to a restaurant.

"But if you're looking for a home, you may take it into serious consideration."

Even if homeowners sell to get closer to work, they'll pay more for their home and probably lose gasoline savings to their mortgage bill, Butler said.

The Sayles have so far eliminated San Diego visits, cut off their cable TV to save $50 a month, left the thermostat at 85 degrees to reduce their electric bill, and don't buy new clothes. Shutting off their cell phones may be next, as well as selling their interest in a time-share condo to save $200 a month.

"We're basically barricading ourselves in our house," Sayles said. "We want to get out and mingle and see what the town has to offer, but we can't . . . I just turned 21 in July and I'm staying home on Saturday nights playing Monopoly. It's my favorite game now."

City of Maricopa residents Mathew and Rachele Reese got a great deal two years ago on their 2,400-square-foot house. Mathew retired from the Maricopa Unified School District and things looked financially bright when he took a job at Apache Junction as a charter school principal in early June when a gallon of gas cost about $1.70.

Now, his wallet's nearly running on empty as twice weekly fillups for his Toyota Corolla cost $80 instead of $40.

"It makes me want to look at the want-ads and find something closer," Reese said.

Pinal County resident Barbara Parsons likes her big house in San Tan Heights,but she doesn't like her 124-mile roundtrip commute to an engineering job at Union Hills and Interstate 17 at Phoenix.

She usually drives a Chrysler Seabreeze, but Pinal County and southern Maricopa County's poor road system sometimes force her to take a gas-guzzling SUV to get through rough or flooded roads, which further drives up costs. And it makes it tough for friends to visit or for her to enjoy what the Valley offers.

"I don't go out on weekends and people won't come see me in San Tan," Parsons said. "So, my social life suffers."

Pinal County resident Timothy Roan hasn't let higher costs hurt his social life, but an 80-mile roundtrip to an accounting job at Tempe means a $53 fill-up every four days for his Kia Sorrento and he'll probably stop using air conditioning to boost gas mileage.

"I try to do all of my shopping on the way home so I don't have to out again," Roan said.

Buckeye residents Sean and Kristy Grippo, who moved in January from the Sacramento area to buy a house, have felt the pinch. Sean drives around Phoenix and to Tucson for work. He gets reimbursed for mileage, but like many such employees those rates haven't kept pace with fuel price surges and it's getting harder to make car and credit card payments.

"It's impacting our finances quite a bit, but we're on a tight budget anyway," Kristy Grippo said. "We're not going as many places as we used to. Of course, we live in Buckeye so we have to drive everywhere . . . we're getting to the point of worrying about our mortgage."

Boston transplants Mike and Stephanie Paesano bought a 3,100-square-foot, Paradise Valley home for the same price as a 1,500-square-foot home back East - and a raging $800 a month gasoline bill now as both have been commuting about 100 miles roundtrip to Gilbert for work. For his Ford Expedition, at 12 miles per gallon, it means twice-weekly fillups to get to an auto shop job, and for her Subaru about $50 to $60 per week.

"We have everything we need five minutes from home," Mike Paesano said. "But it's just to the point where it sucks to put gas in, the price is ridiculous. We're pretty much stuck in the pool, and hanging out at home."

Steve and Jennifer Kennard moved two years ago from the Phoenix historic district to Apache Junction to get away from the hustle and, but now she's driving 70 miles roundtrip to a Tempe job and paying more than $50 to fill up her Toyota 4-Runner, which gets 18 miles per gallon. They have no children, and aren't worried about making the mortgage, but they have slashed trips to hiking and lake areas, and she's considering a more fuel efficient car and carpooling.

"All you can say now is 'Holy you-know-what' because you're spending $50 or $70 a week," said Jennifer Kennard.

Stan Lund, a mortgage broker who drives a Porsche Cayenne SUV, which gets 15 miles per gallon on its 25-gallon tank, is dropping in $1,000 a month in gasoline - a $300 increase.

"But it's having no effect at all," Lund said. "The mortgage business has been very good the last few years."

If anything, Lund said, now is the time for homeowners with equity to consolidate or refinance to create savings, which can help them absorb higher fuel costs.
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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 02:05 AM Thread Starter
 
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yea...sure they are


Smarting from gas prices that top even those in California, state policymakers are fighting back.

But whether their moves will have any punch is questionable.

On Wednesday, Gov. Janet Napolitano and Attorney General Terry Goddard announced an investigation into climbing gas prices.
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Past probes have found no evidence of price collusion.

The Senate Transportation Committee met Wednesday to explore a temporary suspension of Arizona's 18-cent-a-gallon gas tax, as well as the possibility of extending a federal waiver on the use of clean-burning summertime fuel.

But the committee took no action.

Prices are starting to level off: The average price of gas in Phoenix on Wednesday was $3.14 a gallon, compared with $3.13 Tuesday. Last Wednesday, regular unleaded gas was selling for an average of $2.67, according to AAA.

"I think we'll look very closely at suspending the 18-cent tax," said Chairman Thayer Verschoor, R-Gilbert. However, he said he was not ready to push for a special legislative session that would be needed to lift the tax, saying he needs more information.

One item of concern is what the loss of gas-tax revenue could do to the favorable bond rating of the Arizona Department of Transportation, which would be most affected by loss of gas-tax money.

The suspension, which would include the use-fuel tax on diesel, would cost the state about $2 million a day in money lost, budget officials testified.

The savings to consumers would vary on driving habits and the mileage of individual vehicles.

But a person who drove 15,000 miles a year in a vehicle averaging 25 miles per gallon could save $9 a month if the tax was lifted; the savings would be $13.50 if the vehicle got 20 mpg.

At today's gas prices, that would buy 3 or 4 gallons of gas.

Napolitano is not interested in the temporary relief that the tax suspension would provide.

"I think the governor is looking for something much more substantial," said her spokeswoman, Jeanine L'Ecuyer. "Consumers need real relief, not something temporary."

However, she said the Governor's Office doesn't have concrete ideas on what that relief might be.

The push to lower gas prices is sweeping through statehouses across the nation.

On Tuesday, the Georgia Legislature started meetings to consider Gov. Sonny Perdue's order for a monthlong moratorium on the state's gas taxes. Motorists there pay 7.5 cents a gallon in excise taxes, along with a 4 percent sales tax.

Maine's legislative leaders have shown interest in a 60-day suspension of that state's 25.9-cent gasoline tax.

Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell, a Democrat, is considering a temporary suspension of the state's 30-cent-a-gallon tax, and Republican lawmakers in Tennessee are urging a similar temporary break.

However, legislative leaders in Massachusetts have rejected a proposed bill that would suspend the state's 21-cent-a-gallon gas tax.

They said the move would cost the state up to $685 million, money that is mainly used for road and bridge projects.

In Arizona, the gas tax also funds road projects, but Verschoor said he would protect those projects from budget cuts by backfilling with money from the state's General Fund.

The probe into gas-price hikes will center on the sudden surge past California's prices, said Lynette Evans, the governor's policy adviser for regulatory affairs.

Arizona will use its authority under the Anti-Trust Act to seek information from selected gasoline retailers, wholesalers and others.

On Wednesday, the average gas price in Arizona was $3.13 a gallon, 8 cents higher than California's average of $3.05, AAA reported.

"The market looks a little odd to us," Evans said after Napolitano and Goddard met with representatives of the Western States Petroleum Association.

"We're above California," Evans said. "We've never seen that in the 2 1/2 years we've been here."

She said the investigation will provide the chance for an "in-depth review" of gas prices. She conceded that past investigations have not produced any change but said the disparity in price between California and Arizona warrants a fresh look.

Association representative Anita Mangels told Verschoor's committee that the price hikes were due to demand outstripping supply and reminded lawmakers that gasoline prices are tied to a global market.

She said she knows of no instances of price gouging, although she conceded there may be one or two "bad apples."
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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 05:51 AM
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ffs it's $7-04 in the uk on average :storm

ok its a Uk Gallon which is a bit bigger

or as they sell it over her in ltrs

1 ltr = $1-76 ped

u r right though they do need more economical cars
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pugwash
ffs it's $7-04 in the uk on average :storm

ok its a Uk Gallon which is a bit bigger

or as they sell it over her in ltrs

1 ltr = $1-76 ped

u r right though they do need more economical cars
1.76 X 3.73 us gal. =6.56$

Hey its over 4 here in places

All the things we need are going to go up too


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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 07:14 AM Thread Starter
 
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The Arizona Republic
Sept. 9, 2005 12:00 AM

Drivers in the Valley are spending an average of 61 percent more on gasoline this week than they were at the same time last year, according to an analysis by The Arizona Republic.

The devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina to the Gulf Coast region caused prices to take a big bounce this week, up to $3.13 a gallon.

But even two weeks ago, Valley drivers were spending an average of $2.62 a gallon, a 36 percent increase year to year.
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It is hard to believe that the average price for regular gasoline was $1.94 on Sept. 2, 2004, just one year ago.

Kathy Fletcher, 39, who lives in Mesa and works in Phoenix, feels the pinch. She said she spends almost $30 more a week for gasoline than she did two years ago.

"That means like $120 a month more now, and we go out less, do less, stay home more," Fletcher said. "Somebody's making too much money out of these prices . . . but not me."

About 1.1 million Valley drivers commute to work alone, and they're commuting 42 miles a day on average, according to a 2004 Valley Metro survey. That means the average driver of a car in Arizona has spent more than $750 on gas so far this year. For truck and SUV drivers, the bill is almost $1,000.

Taken in total, Maricopa County drivers have spent more than $1 billion dollars on gasoline in 2005. That's enough money to build two new stadiums for the Arizona Cardinals - and still have money left over.

Gas prices can hurt some more than others. For those making the county's median income of $44,901, fueling up consumes an average of 3.1 percent of their income. Workers making $20,000 spend an average of 7.1 percent of their income at the pump.

David Cowley of AAA Arizona said it seemed people had accepted the higher prices earlier in the year.

"Now it's making people change the way they think about gas and how they travel," Cowley said.

Although disasters such as Hurricane Katrina this year and the Kinder Morgan pipeline break in 2003 cause jumps in price, the real problem is behind the scenes.

Worldwide demand for gasoline is increasing because of growing economies in China and India, putting stress on world crude-oil supplies. In the United States, the capacity to refine oil into gasoline has decreased. Oil companies have closed refineries, and the last new refinery in the United States was built in 1976.

Prices at the pump will continue to be volatile as long as supply and demand are so close together, according to analysts like Cowley.

"Every year is going to become an anomaly," Cowley said. "Just hang on to your hats. We're in for a wild ride."

Those who moved to the fringes of the Valley are feeling trapped on the gas price roller coaster.

The Whitbecks moved from Goodyear to Buckeye in July. Although they love their new house, they certainly notice the difference at the gas station.

Christine Whitbeck works as a medical secretary at Banner Good Samaritan Medical Center.

"If we wanted a bigger house, we could not afford to stay in Goodyear," Christine said. "So we moved 20 miles farther away from my work."

The difference in distance led to more trips to the pump.

David Burrola drives 60 miles round trip each day from his Glendale home to the auto dealership he works at in east Mesa.

"It definitely means having less money each month," Burrola said. "I'm paying about twice for gas as I was. Seems not long ago. I feel it."
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 07:14 AM
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Guys.... stop whinning , here a liter of 98 octane gas (the one i have to use on my car) is 1,339 euros (last time i saw, i must be more now)
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 07:16 AM Thread Starter
 
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it just sucks is all MV.
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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 07:31 AM
 
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At least those poor oil company bosses are finally getting some money...

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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 07:36 AM
 
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:offsett gas
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 07:38 AM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
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:offsett gas
well said!!!!
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 07:39 AM Thread Starter
 
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At least those poor oil company bosses are finally getting some money...

yea....I feel soooooo bad for them poor oil company people.....fuckers
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 08:06 AM
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Or

"War is a Racket"
Perusing through a history book as a college student, I came across a jolting declaration in a footnote by one of the most highly decorated soldier of the twentieth century. He said: "I spent 33 years in the Marines, most of my time being a high-class muscle man for big business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer for Capitalism."

Those words and more were spoken and written by Brigadier General Smedley D. Butler. At the time I wondered why more was not made in the historical accounts of the early decades of the 20th century.

Well, maybe because General Butler's was too much of an eyewitness account. And he named names. Here is more of what he said:

"I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interest in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Center American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I bright light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interest in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested."

The famous journalist, Lowell Thomas, saw fit to introduce General Butler's book "War is a Racket" for a Reader's Digest condensation. The General was no pacifist when it came to defending the U.S.A. He just didn't like bullies and corporate greed sending American soldiers abroad to slaughter or be slaughtered.

"War is a racket," Butler wrote, adding "It always has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It is the only one in which the profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives.

"A racket," he continues, "is best described, I believe as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small "inside" group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few, at the expense of the very many. Out of war a few people make huge fortunes."

Butler's language was concrete, gripping and emanated from his personal warring experience, as follows. "How many of these war millionaires shoulder a rifle? How many of them dug a trench? How many of them knew what it meant to go hungry in a rat-infested dugout? How many of them spent sleepless, frightened nights, ducking shells and shrapnel and machine gun bullets? How many of them were wounded or killed in battle?"

More from Butler. "The general public shoulders the bill. This bill renders a horrible accounting. Newly placed gravestones, Mangled bodies. Shattered minds. Broken hearts and homes. Economic instability. Back-breaking taxation for generations and generations."

Butler devoted a chapter to naming the corporate profiteers. He wrote about the propaganda to make young men "feel ashamed if they didn't join the Army" and how war propaganda was vicious enough that "even God was bright into it."

The decorated marine general recommended a unique way to "smash this racket." Draft the Big Boys first! "Let the officers and the directors and the high-powered executives of our armament factories and our steel companies and our munitions makers and our ship-builders and the manufacturers of all the other things that provide profit in war time as well as the banners and the speculators, be conscripted -- to get $30 a month,the same wage as the lads in the trenches get." That will take the "profit out of war," he wrote, and render the remaining wars for the defense of country only, when presumably most everyone would be willing to sacrifice together.

General Butler passed away shortly before Pearl Harbor. This year, with the cooperation of the Butler family, "War is a Racket" has been reissued in paperback by the publisher, Feral House (P.O.Box 39910, Los Angeles, CA 90039, FeralHouse.com), together with photographs of lasting impression from the 1932 camera records of "war's gruesome glories" in the book "The Horror of It." For $9.95 per copy, it gives today's reader more than just a sense of deja vu.

Times have changed and so has the technology of war. But the chicken hawks in Washington, led by Bush and Cheney, are disregarding the advice of many battle-tested officers, retired Generals and Admirals, diplomats and intelligence officials. Instead, they are enlarging their Imperial designs, with the oil and other corporate moguls alongside, that Smedley Butler was highlighting decades ago.

In 1937, Butler asked "Why don't those damned oil companies fly their own flags on their personal property -- maybe a flag with a gas pump on it." Today's reply might say, why should they when they can continue to use the American


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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 08:35 AM
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 09:08 AM
 
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Quote:
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LOL!!!!!!!


and , not to be insensitive to our friends over the pond paying more for gas , but when your gas prices arrived at that point was it a sudden leap like it was here ? If not , then who cares what it costs over there. Here it's a major burden on a lot of people that had tight budgets to begin with. It's like another monthly bill has been dropped on your head, so go add another 160 bucks a month to your monthly bills , see how it affects you and then come back and post " over here it's 98u7987987987987432.904323 a gallon stuff.
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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 09:22 AM
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yes, we do realize you guys pay more, but like saint said we had a sudden JUMP. if your gas went up 50% in a month or two you'd be a bit upset also. regardless of what price it was at. It's just a lot to hit you all at once...


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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 09:28 AM
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i dunno about 12% in the last 2 weeks is wot i figure the UK Prices went up :
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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 09:55 AM
 
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visual aid

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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 10:19 AM
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This is what happens when you live with a high Debt to Income Ratio. Just because you can "afford" it, doesnt mean you should get it.... Why the hell would you want "nice things" when you have to budget going out to eat, or limiting yourself to $40 spending money, or etc etc...

:ghey


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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 10:21 AM
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Forgot to add, I'd rather live in an apartment and have money to blow, than overextend myself for a home that I cant even afford to put furniture in. I'll bet those people that bought that 250,000 house could have settled for a $175,000 home, BUT...they wanted something to show off with


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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 09-09-2005, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
 
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hear they are talking about jumps into the $4 range....in FREAKING AZ???!!!

we dont make what half the rest of the country makes in wages...and they are talking about raising it even further?

soon my friends...there will be a boycott of extreme proportions I feel....and it will get ugly.....real ugly
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