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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-11-2006, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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Life Insurance???

Please post up what you know about life insurance....

I'm getting ready to buy and I need to know everything I can. I have talked to a few agents today and would like to know what any of you have experience with.



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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-11-2006, 07:53 PM
 
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what do you really want to accomplish with it?

if you want it "in case of death" to provide for your family and are trying to decide between term and whole/universal, than you need to figure the cost for it in terms of your needs.


if you want to pay off all bills, pay for the kids education, and then leave some to live on, you better go with term and go big.

however, to me this is idiotic.
its afact that most people who die young and leave families, within a fairly short amount of time, the "family" is made "whole" again by marriage, thus the need for this to overcome the loss of income from the primary breadwinner is wasted.

personally, i dont have a family, so i went with something that will not only give my beneficiaries money to pay any bills, but also will accrue value over my life and allow me to use it as a retirement plan as well.

i prefer universla life over whole life, as most uni policies allow you to change what the "investment" portion of the monthly money is invested in.
I've averaged over 12% on my invested money over the last three years, which if i can keep near to, means i'll have a decent amount of money to withdraw and actually use to supplement my income after retirement.

is that what you want?
because with a family, again, it might not be the best plane.


personally, if i were in the following situyation, i'd go with what i list below:

married, with two children less than 5 years old.
mortgage of $250-$300k
average other debt load of $50k (cars, bills, toys, etc)

to cover this under the first option above you need about 1-1.5 million.
based upon the following.
mortgage $300k
bills$50k
education$100k each
thats $550k

the other thing to figure in is that you may have some medical bills to pay for the "deceased". Even if it's a basic drop dead scenario, and especially if it is an emergency healthcare situation.
add in a feww hundred grand ($200-300k) for living money to cover loss of income, and it adds up fairly quickly.

personally, life insurance in my mind should cover big bills and three years of income, not education and not necessarily all of the house mortgage.

if a person has $500k in cash, they can live quite well, even paying bills.....

also, you need to see if your going to have to pay taxes on the amount paid to beneficiaries as well.

a good agent should run you through a worksheet for all possible scenarios and products and show you tatal predicted costs as well as total potential at realistic numbers for "investment" types.

Also, keep in mind that many companies (State Farm is mine) will give you discounts if you have other types of insurance with them, making total cost even less.
And finally, man ycompanies have a special clause that if you have certain types of insurance with them (mainly uni and whole life) you can never be turned down in the future if you wish to increase the amunt of coverage you are carrying, regardless of your current health status.
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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-11-2006, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R1Budha View Post
what do you really want to accomplish with it?

if you want it "in case of death" to provide for your family and are trying to decide between term and whole/universal, than you need to figure the cost for it in terms of your needs.


if you want to pay off all bills, pay for the kids education, and then leave some to live on, you better go with term and go big.

however, to me this is idiotic.
its afact that most people who die young and leave families, within a fairly short amount of time, the "family" is made "whole" again by marriage, thus the need for this to overcome the loss of income from the primary breadwinner is wasted.

personally, i dont have a family, so i went with something that will not only give my beneficiaries money to pay any bills, but also will accrue value over my life and allow me to use it as a retirement plan as well.

i prefer universla life over whole life, as most uni policies allow you to change what the "investment" portion of the monthly money is invested in.
I've averaged over 12% on my invested money over the last three years, which if i can keep near to, means i'll have a decent amount of money to withdraw and actually use to supplement my income after retirement.

is that what you want?
because with a family, again, it might not be the best plane.


personally, if i were in the following situyation, i'd go with what i list below:

married, with two children less than 5 years old.
mortgage of $250-$300k
average other debt load of $50k (cars, bills, toys, etc)

to cover this under the first option above you need about 1-1.5 million.
based upon the following.
mortgage $300k
bills$50k
education$100k each
thats $550k

the other thing to figure in is that you may have some medical bills to pay for the "deceased". Even if it's a basic drop dead scenario, and especially if it is an emergency healthcare situation.
add in a feww hundred grand ($200-300k) for living money to cover loss of income, and it adds up fairly quickly.

personally, life insurance in my mind should cover big bills and three years of income, not education and not necessarily all of the house mortgage.

if a person has $500k in cash, they can live quite well, even paying bills.....

also, you need to see if your going to have to pay taxes on the amount paid to beneficiaries as well.

a good agent should run you through a worksheet for all possible scenarios and products and show you tatal predicted costs as well as total potential at realistic numbers for "investment" types.

Also, keep in mind that many companies (State Farm is mine) will give you discounts if you have other types of insurance with them, making total cost even less.
And finally, man ycompanies have a special clause that if you have certain types of insurance with them (mainly uni and whole life) you can never be turned down in the future if you wish to increase the amunt of coverage you are carrying, regardless of your current health status.
Damn, you know insurance too..... lmao thanks for the help...

I saw my state farm agent today and it was a little higher than what I wanted to hear...

I was advised by my financial advisor to not go with whole life..... He said you are much better off investing money yourself and buying other insurance, ie term etc....

If I was 18 I would go for whole life for sure, but at 37 with about 300,000.00 in coverage it was about 450 per month.... that's a little more than I was hoping for.

I can get 20 year term for 48 a month with 300,000.00 in coverage. The tobacco rate for the same coverage was 102/month.


This still sounded high for 20 year term after talking to some friends.... so I thought I would see what you guy's had to offer.

This is all through State Farm with no medical issues.

So basically I'm just looking to get about 300k in coverage... 100k for school for my child, and 200k for my wife to pay off the any mortage that we may have at the time.

I was thinking it would be much cheaper.... lol

and yes I have all my insurance through state farm so I should get a break... but it doesn't look like I did. lol




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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-11-2006, 08:36 PM
 
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the break comes on all of your other insurances, not the life because it is an annuity.

also SF is high on term most times.

my insurance for $200k is $100/month of which $95 goes into the "investment pool" currently....

and that is at 34yo

ive had it for a few years though (maybe 6???) so that will also play into iut, as well as where you live..

you can search for term online fairly easily....

also, a lot of times the 20 year terms are outrageous compared to the cost of the two ten year terms even with the increase due to age...

the other thing to keep in mind is the ability to increase at a later date.
if that might be important, than you need to look into it before making any decisions.

as to the investment thing, that is why whole life isnt as good, becuase it's locked toi the Prime rate, universal life isnt, it allows you to act just like most 401k accounts.
choose riskier investments or solid low yield ones, all it affects is the cash value of the policy, as the monthly amount is paid for the insurance regardless.

also, if you are using it for investment, then obviously you should have other forms of investment as well, i recommend ROTH ira's as they are after tax money that once invested, is no longer taxable even if it grows...

much better than paying taxes on the principle and interest when you really want to be living off it instead.

it all needs to be considered as an "overall plan" versus just an "insurance plan"
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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-11-2006, 08:36 PM
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I'm no expert, all I know is what I have. I got $275,000 worth of term life coverage through State Farm for $29 a month. I bought into that about 2 years ago. Plus I just signed up for $90,000 thorugh the city from my new job for only about $2.80 a pay period. Funny you should ask though now because I just got a letter from State Farm saying I can double my coverage with no medical questions or exams ( I was a non smoker when I got the policy...not now though )


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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-12-2006, 02:48 AM
 
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Not sure if they have this in the States, but I bought one from my bank in Canada... it's a half life-insurance half investment thing... it may not pay as much if something happens to me, but the money they take from my bank account each month is also count as an investment, the most important is they guaranteed your capital, so no matter if your investment selection loses, you still won't lost a penny from what you put in... and every 6 years, I can touch my money without penalty... if you don't touch it till you retire, the sum is quite large... so it's also good for retirement or as a backup plan for your kids...

Anyway, you should ask your bank and some insurance agents to see what's available... then pick one that suits you the most... also since you have a kid, you should also look at some special education investment plans for them, it's like a saving thing to use when they get to college or something... the sooner you start for them, the better...


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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-12-2006, 09:00 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for the advise......

Vale, I was looking into those accounts also... but seperate from the insurance.

My main concern is of something happens to me in the next 10-15 years. I want to make sure she can stay in this house and be able to live like we are now. I spend the majority of the money on my toys, so if that's gone she should have pleanty.... lol j/k



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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-12-2006, 10:25 AM
 
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This is a good topic. I started a variable annuity a couple of years ago with a $1 Mil life insc policy attached that's good until I'm 100.

Even though I put $350 a month into it, only $180 - $200 goes into the annuity. The rest is the charge for the policy?

I think it needs some tweeking. Neither I nor my relatives need $1 Mil when I'm in my 80's or 90's IMO. I think I'm over spending and under saving.

The annuity itself has performed like azz as well...

My concern is my mortgage & money for kids college. It doesn't have to pay off the mortgage (7 figures) but knocking it down by half would be nice. My fiancee could afford that without having to bail right away.

One additional thing I've never been clear on are the tax implications. Sure it's a $1 Mil policy, but what's left after Uncle Sam...?

I do have additional whole life coverage through my employer. It used to be $1.6 Mil which was pretty sweet - but I switched companies. I start at the bottom of their policy pole - so it's only like $250k...

It was set up through Allstate - the insc guy is nice, but he's also a good salesman.
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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-12-2006, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScorpion View Post
This is a good topic. I started a variable annuity a couple of years ago with a $1 Mil life insc policy attached that's good until I'm 100.

Even though I put $350 a month into it, only $180 - $200 goes into the annuity. The rest is the charge for the policy?

I think it needs some tweeking. Neither I nor my relatives need $1 Mil when I'm in my 80's or 90's IMO. I think I'm over spending and under saving.

The annuity itself has performed like azz as well...

My concern is my mortgage & money for kids college. It doesn't have to pay off the mortgage (7 figures) but knocking it down by half would be nice. My fiancee could afford that without having to bail right away.

One additional thing I've never been clear on are the tax implications. Sure it's a $1 Mil policy, but what's left after Uncle Sam...?

I do have additional whole life coverage through my employer. It used to be $1.6 Mil which was pretty sweet - but I switched companies. I start at the bottom of their policy pole - so it's only like $250k...

It was set up through Allstate - the insc guy is nice, but he's also a good salesman.
The policy that I was looking at for whole life, was tax free..... There would be no taxes for my wife to pay in the event of my death... all she needs it the death cert and she would have a check the next day.

As for the investment portioon of it, I could take any money available at any time tax free as well, as long as it was equal to or less than what I have paid in.



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post #10 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-12-2006, 01:49 PM
 
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The policy that I was looking at for whole life, was tax free..... There would be no taxes for my wife to pay in the event of my death... all she needs it the death cert and she would have a check the next day.

As for the investment portioon of it, I could take any money available at any time tax free as well, as long as it was equal to or less than what I have paid in.
That sounds pretty interesting. Let me know how things shake out getting it set up etc. I'm 90% sure mine is taxible. Estate taxes are insane.
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post #11 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-12-2006, 02:34 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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That sounds pretty interesting. Let me know how things shake out getting it set up etc. I'm 90% sure mine is taxible. Estate taxes are insane.
Ya I'll post up when I figure out what direction I'm going. He said basically I would be paying income taxes on the money I pay to the insurance, (normal income) so it would not be taxed twice..... I'm sure there may be some plans that are no-taxable in the front so you would have to pay taxes in the end.

Do you get to write off what you pay in now to this plan? If so then you should not be taxed twice unless it's a dividend.?



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post #12 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2006, 12:01 PM
 
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All poicies are annuities and as such, any ACCRUED value is taxable .
The death benefit is taxable based upon the state laws iirc.

Also, all beneficiaries should be actual persons, not the estate.
If you set it up so that the estate or estate officer is the beneficiary, then the whole amount is taxable under estate taxes. Individuals are not estates, so this is very important.
Also as Rheet said, the payment is very well defined and prompt to a person whereas with an estate, it goes into the general estate fund and is divided according to probate and wills, all of which take a lot of time.

PErsonally, AZScorpion, it sounds like abotu right for what you are paying as to what you are receiving for coverage. however, you are probably better off getting a smaller "annuity type" policy and supplementing it with a larger term policy.
The entire idea of annuity policies for retirement is to be able to withdraw the money, slowly, over time, after you retire to supplement your other retirement income. This way, you have a low income, which means low taxes being paid on the amount.
This is where having a ROTH IRA is a bonus as it is not taxable income, even if you have great returns on it and millions of dollars in it. For the $4000 or so dollars a year you can put into it, this is a much better investment option than a 401K or simple IRA or even annuities for the same return on investment. The difference for most people is that their employeer matches into the 401K (for tax purposes of course) and will not into a ROTH IRA.

Also, almost every annuity policy ive ever seen, increases in death benefit value as the cash value approaches the death benefit value. I believe this is actually a federal law, so that you cannot have a large cash value and low death benefit in case someone dies and the insurance companies do not get to keep the "negative difference" between cash value and death benefit.
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-13-2006, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
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I will have to double check with my agent, but I remember him clearly saying that the benifit my sife would recieve is completly tax free?

I would have to pay tax on any money taken out though over the amount I have paid in.

I will call him and post back up.



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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 03:22 PM
 
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btw went today to go look at term on me with the company as beneficiary....

250K at my fat ass height/weight and 20 year term (which is less than 10 year for some stupid reason was 58/month
and 500k was 107/month
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R1Budha View Post
btw went today to go look at term on me with the company as beneficiary....

250K at my fat ass height/weight and 20 year term (which is less than 10 year for some stupid reason was 58/month
and 500k was 107/month
Cool, I'm waiting for a quote though my work right now. They want a policy for them too... lol fookers I should charge them for taking out a policy on me... lol



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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 03:35 PM
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I just got one that ENSURED that my house was paid off !! Im in the military so I get the SGLI also...


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post #17 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 05:44 PM
 
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Cool, I'm waiting for a quote though my work right now. They want a policy for them too... lol fookers I should charge them for taking out a policy on me... lol
you could always refuse to take the exam.....
without proper compensation....
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post #18 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 05:45 PM
 
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btw, that was from State Farm....

Chase was more than 250% higher, and cinncinnati life is outrageous as well....

so far SF was WAAAAAYYYYYY cheaper than anybody else.
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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 06:04 PM
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term life is probably the best for us younger folks, if you want to invest and have cash value put your money somewhere where it has a chance to grow (a la the market). Diversify, and diversify more.

We usually push annuities on the older crowd, because when you are older you dont want to take as much risk and quite frankly you just dont have as much time. A 5 to 7 year guarantees principle and can get you 6 to 7%, and can grow tax free until you decide to yank it.

For us younger folks, annuities are waaay to conservative. Might as well roll CD's every year or leave it in a savings account. A balanced mutual fund portfolio is a nice way to go.

Back to the life insurance thing, I say go with term life, chalk up the monthly fee as the cost of doing business and put your money in a better place.

Just my humble opinion of course.


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post #20 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-21-2006, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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I spoke with my State Farm agent again today, he double checked with his tax agent and Corp. State Farm also. The death benefit is not taxable. He did say though from the time of death to the time of the check being cut there would be tax on any interest for that period of time only. normally about 2 days to 2 weeks of interest.

This goes against what some of you were saying so I have a call into my tax guy as well.



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