Anything Goes Self explanatory forum name... (No NWS)

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
phil-osepher
 
kneedragger77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: El Mundo
Posts: 3,699
 
Question The whole Iraq situation....

So, let's all look forward shall we? I'm sitting here contimplating just how fu(ked we are, as a global community. Regardless of why we went in, shoulda coulda woulda....we are there now, and I believe we are truly between a rock and a hard place. This is not something that the dems or repubs can solve individually, no bipartisan talks can resolve this, we have truly opened pandora's box.

Think about it. Let's look at the options.
1-Pull completely out of Iraq. There is no "live and let live" in the terrorist mind. They will still hate us, they will still come after us. Iraq will be a disaster, the UN will try to step in and warring tribes will compete for power. It will be a slaughterhouse. Lots of oil, which affects us, will be at stake too. This can't, and won't happen.

2-Stay in Iraq indefinitely. Insurgents are still pissed at us, soldiers dying on a daily basis, what are we accomplishing other than keeping the cap on a can of worms? We are trying to stand up the Iraqi Govt, but they can't do it alone. Their own police are corrupt, those who are elected are assasinated, it's a bad deal. The American public and world community probably won't stand for more years of 150,000 troops in Iraq. Troops are already on their 3rd and 4th tours, families are being torn apart. This is a bad option.

3-Find some kind of happy in-between. Maybe a slow draw down of some sort, but we've tried this a few times already and it just doesn't work. Which leads us back to situation #1 and the issues associated with that.

Our troops are over-extended, our gov't is dumping billions into our efforts there, and the nation is getting tired. However, I still believe we have to have an influence there, we can't just leave. Regardless of what political party is in power, these same problems will face them. If we stay, we are screwed, if we leave, we are doubly screwed... We can't go back to the way it was, this is a new world we live in. I'd like to say that we are doing the right thing, and are preventing more attacks on everyone.

Thoughts please? Try to keep it civil. We can't change the past, I'm just looking for where we need to go in the future. I know that things won't change until Bush leaves office, but even if Hillary were to get elected, or even Colin Powell, these same problems would still face them. Grasping the Iraq situation is like trying to herd cats.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
kneedragger77 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 04:22 PM
Master of Sergeants
 
No1stunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Okinawa
Posts: 5,536
  
Send a message via AIM to No1stunner Send a message via Yahoo to No1stunner Send a message via Skype™ to No1stunner
I'm ready for it to be over.

Lost alot of good friends over there!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
No1stunner is offline  
post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 04:24 PM
No Crying Allowed
 
R1Lover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: California
Posts: 20,229
   
Good post, but there is no one asnwer...............


Either way or or whichever way we go, there will be issues.... I say pull out and let them beat each other up... or let the rest of the world step up and take care of it.

There is no RIGHT answer on this. IMO



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
R1Lover is offline  
post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 04:31 PM
Ask the Chief
 
Firehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Right here.
Posts: 10,687
   
i'd go back in a heartbeat...

has there EVER been a solution to religious wars? they've been doing it for thousands of years, and we just got ourselves knee-deep into it. only way out is to completely regress, bring everyone home and stop helping "the world". unfortunately, that's not an option either.

for the US haters out there, tell me what would happen if we completely stopped helping and regressed. who would fill the power vaccuum? what would happen? would someone else step up and fill the void, or would everyone just suddenly get along? i'm honestly asking this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Firehawk is offline  
post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 04:33 PM
Master of Sergeants
 
No1stunner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Okinawa
Posts: 5,536
  
Send a message via AIM to No1stunner Send a message via Yahoo to No1stunner Send a message via Skype™ to No1stunner
Quote:
Originally Posted by firehawk View Post
i'd go back in a heartbeat...

has there EVER been a solution to religious wars? they've been doing it for thousands of years, and we just got ourselves knee-deep into it. only way out is to completely regress, bring everyone home and stop helping "the world". unfortunately, that's not an option either.

for the US haters out there, tell me what would happen if we completely stopped helping and regressed. who would fill the power vaccuum? what would happen? would someone else step up and fill the void, or would everyone just suddenly get along? i'm honestly asking this.
Good Point


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
No1stunner is offline  
post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 04:46 PM
Resident Redneck
 
Biga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: On This Forum
Posts: 9,793
   
Send a message via Skype™ to Biga
I'm with R1L on this we should bring the soldiers home, let the Iraqis kill them self's as they see fit.

I hate to hear on the news every night that one of our soldiers died.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Biga is offline  
post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 06:20 PM
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 144
 
I say we put saddam back in power and pull out. Things weren't so bad for us when he was in power. It's easier to keep tabs on him, then all the little guys running around with RPGs killing our guys


but more importantly I hope we learn our lesson from this and don't go around invading countries on some whim. We need to go back to the good old days of leader assassinations and cout de tat's to enforce our forign policy interests
doc750 is offline  
post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 06:29 PM
7c Forever
 
Junior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: the business end of a CAD station.
Posts: 9,879
  
historically, I can't think of a single time an occupation has ever worked in the long term.

I guess Spain/Portugals occupation of south america.... kind of.

HAIL TO THE KING!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Junior is offline  
post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 06:44 PM
don't read this
 
rinn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Morrison, CO
Posts: 16,356
   
Send a message via AIM to rinn Send a message via Yahoo to rinn
I will say this.. after this administration if a Democrat wins (which is a strong possibility if they get a good candidate for once) there will be a pull out of troops and I think american people are ready to wipe their hands clean and let Iraqi people fight it out...

Sad but I would rather have americans at home than dying for this..



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"I don't like your jerk off name, I don't like your jerk off face, I don't like your jerk off behavior, and I don't like you...... jerk off!"
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
rinn is offline  
post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 06:49 PM
Ass Cramp
 
R6Flyby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 44 53' N 93 13' W
Posts: 2,153
 
Send a message via Yahoo to R6Flyby
I am not one to be much in politics but here is my .02

The way terrorism has become we needed a front line to draw. With Iraq being in between Syria and Iran and with both countrys being as strong as they are it would be hard to Fook them up with an aggressor as Saddam in the middle he would be taking popshots at our men and women when ever he could. Classic move if you are playing "Risk" Take out a weak link to set up for the aggressor. It is sad to think of a human being to be a pawn in a chess match but this is what a commander would be thinking. Before we entered Iraq the best point of attack into Syria or Iran was from Kawait or Saudi Arabia. Both places still you would still have to go through Iraq. Why get shot at from there also. What a better launching point? Thing is, is that no one ever thought it would go on as long as it has. But again you have Syria and Iran faning the flames and adding more kenneling. Do I think Bush thought of this and the answer is NO!!!! Bush can't supervise his was out of a paper sack. But he is letting this happen and will be until the military commanders give up. IMO that will be along time. I am not claiming to know anything about anything but if I was playing "Risk" that would be my next move. God Bless the Men and Women that are fighting for my .02.
R6Flyby is offline  
post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 06:54 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,350
  
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior View Post
historically, I can't think of a single time an occupation has ever worked in the long term.

I guess Spain/Portugals occupation of south america.... kind of.
how about the occupation of the republic of texas.....

how about the occupation of most of the western united stated due to manifest destiny..... (including California)

how about the occupation of Japan by the US after WWII, including a sizable investment in rebuilding the country.....


the biggest problem is that the occupied country is full of uneducated people who have never had the chance to know anything different.
Their leaders have always used the only thing they had, religious and political hatred of the United States and other countries of similar makeup to brainwash the inhabitants into believing that their lack of "things" is the fault of theses western countries.
very similar to what the eastern bloc countries tried to do during the cold war.
the difference?

the people in the eastern bloc were eventually able to see the error and lies that they were being fed by their leaders and understand that the "enemy" wasn't the one causing their poor living, but rather those same leaders who were, in much the same way as middle eastern "leaders" do, hording the wealth and privilege for themselves.

until the local inhabitants are willing to look past the rhetoric that they have been fed for a hundred years and longer, and realize that the "leaders" of their countries are doing more to harm them and hold them down than any outside country ever has, they will continue to end up living in squalor and virtual slavery to their leaders.

These leaders use their "religious purity" to hold women in servitude and dangle the carrot of "power" to the men they hold in servitude.

until that changes (and it is starting as people realize that certain things are not only self-destructive, but basically ignorant), these countries will remain much the same as they currently are, and their people will remain the "fodder" for their leaders to use as they see fit.
R1Budha is offline  
post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 07:05 PM
Ask the Chief
 
Firehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Right here.
Posts: 10,687
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc750 View Post
I say we put saddam back in power and pull out.
so.....we fight for x number of years, kill x number of soldiers, then decide to put a psychopath, currently in prison for killing thousands of humans, back in charge of the country. everything resets back to 2003.

i hope you're kidding bro....

1. we would shame every US soldier that died for freedom.
2. even though it's a quagmire, we'd totally fuck every iraqi that IS good and IS relying on us to "scoop" things out.
3. the whole region would plunge into utter darkness....you think it's bad now? put saddam back in charge....iran goes apeshit, every arabic country that DOES support us immediately stops.
4. the US loses every OUNCE of credibility in the world (and yes, even less than we already have)


i would venture to say that the whole of the world would plunge into darkness. all you have to do is fight back against the US, and they'll quit. no one will ever respect the might we bring to the fight ever again.

not to mention, i spent a full year away from my family over there, fighting for my brothers to come home. even suggesting the idea of "placing" that asshole back in charge again is the most insulting thing i've ever heard.

we're there, we started it, and we can't leave till we're done. will we ever be done? scares me to say it, but NO. that's a war that has no ending or exit plan. iraq most likely will never stabilize until a NON-US placed leader, well liked by ALL, takes the place by the nuts and does something with it. they need a strong leader in a bad way.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Firehawk is offline  
post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 07:08 PM
Ask the Chief
 
Firehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Right here.
Posts: 10,687
   
damn well put, budha.

it's going to take a LEADER, accepted and revered by the people, to make a change over there. if kuwait and saudi can do it, so can iraq. it's just not going to happen under any leader or regime put in place by the US. sounds like trying to get the scottish to accept british lords. just not going to happen.

so is Sadr the next william wallace?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Firehawk is offline  
post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 10:06 PM
Mummy Man
 
gsxcorey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,224
 
Send a message via MSN to gsxcorey
thing most people don't realize is we are selling our economy to china to pay for this. they are buying bonds like CRAZY and our debt is sky high. if they sold out our bonds and flooded the market the american dollar wouldn't be worth a shit. even read in a financial mag that quoted one of our economic leader that the days are here where any large economic decision will be have to be approved by china...

we can't stay there...financially, and other reasons


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
gsxcorey is offline  
post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 10:07 PM
Mummy Man
 
gsxcorey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,224
 
Send a message via MSN to gsxcorey
thing most people don't realize is we are selling our economy to china to pay for this. they are buying bonds like CRAZY and our debt is sky high. if they sold out our bonds and flooded the market the american dollar wouldn't be worth a shit. even read in a financial mag that quoted one of our economic leader that the days are here where any large economic decision will be have to be approved by china...

we can't stay there...financially, and other reasons

either way, i just don't care anymore...sick of hearing about it on tv


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
gsxcorey is offline  
post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 10:07 PM
7c Forever
 
Junior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: the business end of a CAD station.
Posts: 9,879
  
Quote:
Originally Posted by firehawk View Post
damn well put, budha.

it's going to take a LEADER, accepted and revered by the people, to make a change over there. if kuwait and saudi can do it, so can iraq. it's just not going to happen under any leader or regime put in place by the US. sounds like trying to get the scottish to accept british lords. just not going to happen.

so is Sadr the next william wallace?
Will Wallace didn't really succeed in a free scotland tho. So long as we're talking about attempts, Charlie made a better one.

Budha, it's funny you mention Japan, I wanted to bring up India under british occupation, but both of those where handled VERY differently than a traditional occupation, they realized right from square one, that they would be there for decades, lots of decades, and first priorities where schools, hospitals, social services. Set them up to be capable of taking care of themselves. Look at the 2 examples tho, India and Japan are both doing very well now, Japan in particular.

I'm a firm believer that what's needed is a public broadcast system to show them things that are not religios, or political, just simple stuff like what we'd see on the discovery channel. It's a simple way to set the tone for learning, and get them seeking knowledge, even if it's simple stuff that doesn't pertain to anything. Stuff on waterfalls, weird south american animals, coral reefs, shit that would fascinate them, that they've not heard of before.

HAIL TO THE KING!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Junior is offline  
post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 10:15 PM
Rookie again
 
LarsR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NW Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,071
 
My cousin said last year after coming home that we'd be there for at least another ten years. Now I don't doubt it. We just can't pull out and leave them to fend for themselves. The U.S. would be disgraced.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
LarsR1 is offline  
post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 10:26 PM
Mummy Man
 
gsxcorey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,224
 
Send a message via MSN to gsxcorey
if we dont' find a way to fund it we won't have a choice. also how long does it take for the american public to say "ENOUGH"? support for it is going away quickly. when america says enough then the troops come home because the troops are ordered around by politicians who do what the public wants.

after bush i doubt a republican has a chance except maybe mccain. a democrat gets in there and if we don't pull out we'll at least pull back.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
gsxcorey is offline  
post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-11-2006, 11:35 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,237
 
We're all screwed.

The only "LEADER" that will rise to power there will be a hard-line ayatollah kind of person.

Fundamental islam will rule, maybe giving way to the merging of Irak/Iran creating a great Islamic Persian empire that will destabilise the entire Middle East even more than it has been in recent years.

There is no way anything good can come out of this.

The only solution is unethical and impractical and involves multiple ballistic missiles.

Now with North Korea proving they have nukes, and their willingness to sell weapons technology to Middle East countries (and/or terrorists) in the past, the above solution will be achieved sooner or later anyway, but it will not be the West who will strike first...

So any way you put it, the world as a whole is in the shitter.

Please stop the world, I want to get off. It's full of crazy people.
Belgium is offline  
post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 10-12-2006, 12:13 AM
Team America Support Crew
 
Warp Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Thailand
Posts: 7,039
  
Send a message via Yahoo to Warp Racer
Quote:
Originally Posted by R1Budha View Post
..................>>>>>>

how about the occupation of Japan by the US after WWII, including a sizable investment in rebuilding the country.....


the biggest problem is that the occupied country is full of uneducated people who have never had the chance to know anything different.
Their leaders have always used the only thing they had, religious and political hatred of the United States and other countries of similar makeup to brainwash the inhabitants into believing that their lack of "things" is the fault of theses western countries.
very similar to what the eastern bloc countries tried to do during the cold war.
the difference?

the people in the eastern bloc were eventually able to see the error and lies that they were being fed by their leaders and understand that the "enemy" wasn't the one causing their poor living, but rather those same leaders who were, in much the same way as middle eastern "leaders" do, hording the wealth and privilege for themselves.

until the local inhabitants are willing to look past the rhetoric that they have been fed for a hundred years and longer, and realize that the "leaders" of their countries are doing more to harm them and hold them down than any outside country ever has, they will continue to end up living in squalor and virtual slavery to their leaders.

These leaders use their "religious purity" to hold women in servitude and dangle the carrot of "power" to the men they hold in servitude.

until that changes (and it is starting as people realize that certain things are not only self-destructive, but basically ignorant), these countries will remain much the same as they currently are, and their people will remain the "fodder" for their leaders to use as they see fit.
Well said....


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
ONCE YOU'VE HAD ASIAN, YOU WILL NEVER TOUCH CAUCASIAN
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
OLD AGE AND TREACHERY WILL ALWAYS OVERCOME YOUTH AND ENTHUSIASM
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Warp Racer is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Sport Bike Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Traffic Ticket Situation mkinla Anything Goes 9 05-03-2006 08:21 AM
Top shot in IRAQ Warp Racer Anything Goes 27 03-03-2006 10:30 AM
Coming Home Soon Video for the troops in Iraq rinn Media 8 01-13-2006 12:58 PM
E-mail going around about Iraq, R1Nomad Anything Goes 18 11-18-2005 05:48 PM
Iraq, Abe style.... Firehawk Anything Goes 37 06-26-2005 05:43 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome