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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 06:41 AM Thread Starter
 
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Motorcycle deaths renew safety calls

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By KRISTEN WYATT
Associated Press Writer

ANNAPOLIS, Md. (AP) - Just having them pass you can be scary _ groups of high-speed motorcyclists darting through traffic at speeds that make even lead-foot drivers wince.

Called "bullet bikes" and "crotch rockets," with the drivers crouching low over the body of the bike, the motorcycles tear down roads at harrowing speeds.

A pair of deadly motorcycle accidents in Maryland over the weekend that left three dead are renewing calls for tougher penalties for speeders. Cycling groups, meantime, say not all riders are to blame.

...

Full article available here: http://www.wtopnews.com/?nid=598&sid=1164331


Ok, now for the lies, damn lies, and statistics part: My brief commentary.

The writer states: "According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, motorcycle fatals in Maryland rose 60 percent, from 53 a year to 85 a year, from 2001 to 2005, the most recent year with available statistics. In Virginia, motorcycle fatals went up 53 percent, from 45 deaths in 2001 to 69 deaths in 2005."

The problem with these figures is we are given percentage increases without any normalization or point of reference. In other words, we are not told whether total miles ridden has increased. If speed-related accidents increased while total motorcycle-miles ridden stayed the same, they would have a case. In fact, if this were true, I'm sure they would say it. I doubt it's the case.

A certain number of motorcycle accidents are going to occur for every 100,000 motorcycle miles ridden. More miles = more accidents. There is no indication whatsoever that illegal riding is to blame in this scenario. Without having some measure of total motorcycle use, we cannot glean anything from these dumbed down statistics about higher numbers of accidents. Or can we?

The author quotes in the very next paragraph: "High-speeding cycles are becoming more common around the region, said Maryland Delegate William Bronrott, D-Montgomery, who says lawmakers should consider stiffening penalties for excessive speeding. Currently, Bronrott said, Maryland law does not allow speeders to be jailed."

First, I wonder if this guy has actually looked at a survey or done a field study to back this up. I seriously doubt it. I doubt he would even know how to scientifically demonstrate that motorcyclists are speeding more frequently than before. Second, maybe we have the answer right here. If there are more motorcycles on the road as a result of the increased number of sportbikes, then the accident rate fits with this usage increase and does not demonstrate an increase in bad riding per se. Also note that Bronrott points the finger at only one roadway user group--motorcyclists. He completely misses an opportunity to suggest better cager training and education, which we all know is severely lacking.

This guy Bonrott hadn't ought to be interviewed for motorcycle stories, and he hadn't ought to be re-elected.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 09:13 AM
 
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well.. i agree with you and disagree with you.

the facts are that for 1 million vehicle miles traveled motorcycles get in way more accidents then cars. I have the DOT PDF of this somewhere but at the moment I can't find it.

They definitely do not take data on what kind of bike gets in the accident (usually its by engine size) so that generalization is retarded (that its "bullet bikes" that get in all the accidents).

The most accidents are in the 40 plus range on motorcycles that are 600CC or bigger.

I have more to say but I have to go to work.

but you are right, this guy does not site anything, its all subjective.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 09:47 AM
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Well, how often do you see Harley riders weaving in and out of traffic on the highway and doing standup wheelies etc? The answer is never...

Not to say that they don't have high mortality rates too, but until any one of us can stand up and say that we've never sped on the road, passed on the DY, or participate in some of the dumb crap that almost ALL sportbike riders do at one point or another... we are to blame....


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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 03:46 PM
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yep....and Navy leadership is going off the deep end about it too...

all kinds of calls for safety reviews and training. i'm taking lead at my command to ensure all my guys have MSF and adequate mentorship/training. so far, we have 22 riders, and 12 don't have MSF.

IT'S MANDATORY!!!

dunno how they got around it.


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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 03:51 PM
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US Military is going overboard. I remember on Active Duty it was such a hassle going on post. Reflective vest, leather boots (not cloth), MSF card, Drivers license blah blah


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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAGULA View Post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By KRISTEN WYATT
Associated Press Writer



Called "bullet bikes" and "crotch rockets," with the drivers crouching low over the body of the bike, the motorcycles tear down roads at harrowing speeds.
Who besides the non riding public calls sportbikes bullet bikes or crotch rockets? Idiotic uninformed morons


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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kneedragger77 View Post
US Military is going overboard. I remember on Active Duty it was such a hassle going on post. Reflective vest, leather boots (not cloth), MSF card, Drivers license blah blah
Actually, a license, insurance and MSF card should be the standard. The military just has the opportunity to enforce it. Only time I needed it was getting my perm. decal. Other than that, I carry it in my wallet.

No more vests required during the day on Naval stations.

Over-the-ankle boots are a requirement, but they don't have a problem with cloth or leather.

Guess it's gotten a little easier. :


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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 07:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehawk View Post
yep....and Navy leadership is going off the deep end about it too...

all kinds of calls for safety reviews and training. i'm taking lead at my command to ensure all my guys have MSF and adequate mentorship/training. so far, we have 22 riders, and 12 don't have MSF.

IT'S MANDATORY!!!

dunno how they got around it.


The MSF course has never been empirically validated. I'm not hating on it, but there is no proof it results in less accidents.

NHTSA is working on scientifically validating the MSF course and other courses like it (I just submitted a proposal for a Grant to work on the validation process).

I didn't know that the military could enforce such rules (although I guess I should have). It's good that they do.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBrianZX6R View Post

I didn't know that the military could enforce such rules (although I guess I should have). It's good that they do.
Once in the military, you are basically owned, a mere pawn if you will... They could come to me tomorrow and send me off for 3 years to the moon, and I really couldn't say shit about it....


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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-12-2007, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBrianZX6R View Post
The MSF course has never been empirically validated. I'm not hating on it, but there is no proof it results in less accidents.
Maybe...but it's better than nothing for damn sure.

At least teaches the basic skills of riding.


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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 07:59 AM
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Better SAFE than Sorry ....I kinda like the Military's saftey precautions....


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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 08:53 PM
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since all harley types or twin crusiers are over 600cc how many of them are counted in the over 600cc class in motorcycle class? Sportbikes get all the greif. But really how many are the cause/result of these deaths?


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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-15-2007, 02:54 PM
 
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Well the data show that the highest fatality group is the over 40 with a 600cc bike or higher. Which is predomintly the cruiser/harley type.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-15-2007, 09:54 PM
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Are they comparing all accidents or just fatlities? Bikes are by nature more lethal due to the lack of protection so Bikes will seem to get involved in more accidents since many automobile accidents go unreported or not counted into the fatalities statistics.
At least that is my perspective.


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USMC: We put the "laughter" back in Slaughter.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-16-2007, 07:21 AM
 
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I'm going to dig up my references when I get home.

The statistics I quoted were for fatalities.

Ronin I'm confused, just because its there is an accident doesn't mean its automatically a fatality. Maybe I just didn't read your comment right.
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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-16-2007, 07:59 AM
 
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Here is what I could find at work from NHTSA: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810620.PDF

The last year a comprehensive study on fatal motorcycle accidents was done was 2001 so I hesitate to use those statistics since its probably changed.

The report above gives a good indication of whats going on. Notice... they don't categorize motorcycle types, just engine size.
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-17-2007, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBrianZX6R View Post
Ronin I'm confused, just because its there is an accident doesn't mean its automatically a fatality. Maybe I just didn't read your comment right.
That's what I was asking. Did they compare all accidents or just those with fatalities? Anyway, good info you posted. Makes for interesting reading.


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USMC: We put the "laughter" back in Slaughter.

Last edited by Ronin; 06-17-2007 at 05:57 PM.
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