Anything Goes Self explanatory forum name... (No NWS)

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 05:40 AM Thread Starter
Ass Cramp
 
R6Flyby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 44 53' N 93 13' W
Posts: 2,153
 
Send a message via Yahoo to R6Flyby
Thumbs down Say it ain't so!!!!!!!

I know Firehawk is with me on this

WASHINGTON - A mechanical monster grabs the F-14 fighter jet and chews through one wing and then another, ripping off the Tomcat's appendages before moving onto its guts. Finally, all that's left is a pile of shredded rubble like the scraps from a Thanksgiving turkey.
The Pentagon is paying a contractor at least $900,000 to destroy old F-14s, a jet affectionately nicknamed "the turkey," rather than sell the spares at the risk of their falling into the wrong hands, including Iran's.
Within a workday, a $38 million fighter jet that once soared as a showpiece of U.S. airpower can be destroyed at the Davis-Monthan Air Force Base in Tucson, Ariz., the military's "boneyard" for retired aircraft.
"There were things getting to the bad guys, so to speak," said Tim Shocklee, founder and executive vice president of TRI-Rinse Inc. in St. Louis. "And one of the ways to make sure that no one will ever use an F-14 again is to cut them into little 2-by-2-foot bits."
The Defense Department had intended to destroy spare parts unique to the F-14 but sell thousands of others that could be used on other aircraft. It suspended sales of all Tomcat parts after The Associated Press reported in January that buyers for Iran, China and other countries had exploited gaps in surplus-sale security to acquire sensitive U.S. military gear, including F-14 parts.
Among other tactics, middlemen for the countries misrepresented themselves to gain access to the Defense Department's surplus sales or bought sensitive surplus from U.S. companies that had acquired it from Pentagon auctions and weren't supposed to allow its export.
Investigators also found some sensitive items accidentally slipping into surplus auctions rather than being destroyed as they were supposed to be. In an unusual move when dealing with retired aircraft, the Pentagon is trying to shut off all avenues for Iran's parts purchasers by demolishing the F-14s, then combing through the scraps to make sure nothing useful remains.
Iran is the only country trying to keep Tomcats airworthy. The United States let Iran buy the F-14s in the 1970s when it was an ally, long before President Bush named it part of an "axis of evil."
Shocklee's company won a three-year, $3.7 million contract to render surplus equipment useless for military purposes. The work includes the recent demolition of 23 Tomcats in Arizona, accounting for about $900,000 of TRI-Rinse's contract. The military is considering using the same process on its other F-14s.
The company has developed portable shredding machinery so the Pentagon can have sensitive items destroyed on a base instead of shipping them long distances to be shredded.
The Tomcat was a strike fighter with a striking price tag: roughly $38 million. By the 1980s it was a movie star with a leading role in the Tom Cruise classic "Top Gun." But as the planes are mangled into unrecognizable metal chunks, the jets with a 38-foot wingspan appear small and vulnerable.
The shearing machine, which uses pincers to rip apart the planes, weighs 100,000 pounds. The shredder is 120,000 pounds. An F-14 weighs about 40,000 pounds.
Among the shredded victims in Arizona: a plane flown by the "Tophatters" squadron, which led the first airstrike in Afghanistan when the U.S. invaded in October 2001.
The Pentagon retired its F-14s last fall. At last count, the military's boneyard in Arizona held 165 Tomcats, believed to be the only ones left out of 633 produced for the Navy. The others were scavenged for parts to keep others flying, went to museums or crashed, said a spokeswoman for the air base, Teresa Vanden-Heuvel.
As powerful as the grinding machinery is, not all of the F-14 can be shredded. The landing gear built to withstand the force of slamming onto an aircraft carrier's deck must be cut by hand with a demolition torch. It's made from steel with parts of titanium, so the shears can't cut it and the shredder can't chew it.
Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., considers the F-14 demolitions a good effort, but wants to go further and outlaw the sale of F-14 parts to anyone except museums. Wyden sponsored legislation that also would ban export licenses for F-14 components, which he believes will be more effective than Pentagon policies that he said have changed over time.
"I don't think internal rules these internal initiatives based on the track record of the Department of Defense, are sufficient," Wyden said.

The House passed similar legislation in June; a Senate vote is expected later this summer. The White House hasn't said whether Bush supports the idea.
F-14 preservationists said the Pentagon is handling the Tomcats they obtain differently.
As a Navy pilot, retired Capt. Dale Snodgrass delivered an F-14 to Iran flying nonstop from the United States with roughly No. 68 of about 80 planes that Iran ordered.
Snodgrass said only key computers were taken out and ejection systems disabled on planes delivered to museums in past years. This year, when an F-14 went on display at a Miami museum, virtually everything was removed, leaving only a shell with the canopy painted black, said Snodgrass, who lives in St. Augustine, Fla.
Snodgrass is part of F-14 history. He flew Tomcats for roughly a quarter-century and amassed the most flight time in them of any pilot: more than 4,800 hours. He was named Navy pilot of the year around the time "Top Gun" hit theaters.
Snodgrass said he understands the Pentagon's destruction of F-14s but said it would be nice to see some preserved. Pilots dubbed the Tomcat "the turkey" because of its ungainly, turkey-like look when landing on aircraft carriers. "When I first started it," Snodgrass said, "it was the biggest, the fastest, the most impressive, the most maneuverable fighter on the planet Earth."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
R6Flyby is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 05:48 AM
7c Forever
 
Junior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: the business end of a CAD station.
Posts: 9,879
  
ya I know I read that this morning while having my coffee.

moment of silence for the tomcats....

HAIL TO THE KING!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Junior is offline  
post #3 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 06:34 AM
Ask the Chief
 
Firehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Right here.
Posts: 10,687
   
So let me get this right....

Destroy all the Tomcats that are fully preserved, but under lock and key and heavy guard on an Air Force base, standing ready reserve in case we ever need them again.

Leave intact all Tomcats that are out in public, in museums under very little to no security at all.

Yea, I'm guilty as a being a cat-fanatic, so this story hits home. Iran is the "enemy", but the parts pipelines have been open free and clear for years. 6 years ago, they could have gotten anything they wanted.

Tomcat is such a historic airplane...would be a REALLY stupid move to gut and destroy each and every single one. Just think of all the historic WWII fighters that we destroyed after the war. Collectors would give their first born to get a few of those aircraft back.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Firehawk is offline  
post #4 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
Ass Cramp
 
R6Flyby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 44 53' N 93 13' W
Posts: 2,153
 
Send a message via Yahoo to R6Flyby
Fully agree. The SR71 is still floating around air museums to this day, and that is one of the most secret planes that the US had( and parts still are) in it's arsenal til Stealth technology came in the mid90's. I really wish that they would keep them and just not worry about Iran receiving this technology. It would be far into the future for them to retrained and that equipment up and operational


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
R6Flyby is offline  
post #5 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 08:31 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,350
  
they are only destroying airframes.

nothing else.

and they are keeping a large stockpile of ready reserve planes as well.

as usual, the press got about 2% correct.

They have previously removed all of the electronics and other bits from the airframes.
R1Budha is offline  
post #6 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 08:33 AM
7c Forever
 
Junior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: the business end of a CAD station.
Posts: 9,879
  
amen to the 'incase we ever need them again" part.

those planes are old, but their not a slouch, it sucks bad enough that they decommission them, but to then just trash them 'cause they're worried that "enemy of the moment" might get some parts.... I can't go along with that.

1 squadron of cat's could single handedly demolish my entire countries airforce. Yes, they're that good, and yes, it's been done before in war games, it's not just idle speculation. Albeit, there isn't a forseeable circumstance where they would be needed anymore, but it never hurts to be prepared, it's not costing anything to leave them there mothballed. It IS however costing to scrap them. That's not to even bring in the whole collector value issue. Those planes had MANY things going that are unique to it, and it was undoubtedly the best naval interceptor of it's time. Possibly the best naval interceptor ever.

HAIL TO THE KING!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Junior is offline  
post #7 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 08:42 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,350
  
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior View Post
amen to the 'incase we ever need them again" part.

those planes are old, but their not a slouch, it sucks bad enough that they decommission them, but to then just trash them 'cause they're worried that "enemy of the moment" might get some parts.... I can't go along with that.

1 squadron of cat's could single handedly demolish my entire countries airforce. Yes, they're that good, and yes, it's been done before in war games, it's not just idle speculation. Albeit, there isn't a forseeable circumstance where they would be needed anymore, but it never hurts to be prepared, it's not costing anything to leave them there mothballed. It IS however costing to scrap them. That's not to even bring in the whole collector value issue. Those planes had MANY things going that are unique to it, and it was undoubtedly the best naval interceptor of it's time. Possibly the best naval interceptor ever.
it's actually not that they don't want to keep tomcats around, it's more that they dont want to keep making million dollar missiles (Phoenix) for them to "practice" with.
R1Budha is offline  
post #8 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 09:46 AM
7c Forever
 
Junior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: the business end of a CAD station.
Posts: 9,879
  
ok, but the Phoenix is hands down the best weapon for that job. That was the tomcats party piece.

HAIL TO THE KING!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Junior is offline  
post #9 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 10:29 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,350
  
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior View Post
ok, but the Phoenix is hands down the best weapon for that job. That was the tomcats party piece.
blame idiotic senators.......

you no, the ones who think terrorists only want to kill us because "we started it"

go have another totty teddy
R1Budha is offline  
post #10 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 12:13 PM
7c Forever
 
Junior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: the business end of a CAD station.
Posts: 9,879
  
well it's not as tho a phoenix is gonna be a whole lotta use against your average terrorist.

you'd think tho that nomatter what side of the political divide you come down on, you'd keep some of the better ones. If you wanna scrap planes, that's fine, I can think of lots of planes that could be axed without really hurting the strength of the airforce, but f00k man, chopping them into little pieces?

HAIL TO THE KING!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Junior is offline  
post #11 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 12:16 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,350
  
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior View Post
well it's not as tho a phoenix is gonna be a whole lotta use against your average terrorist.

you'd think tho that nomatter what side of the political divide you come down on, you'd keep some of the better ones. If you wanna scrap planes, that's fine, I can think of lots of planes that could be axed without really hurting the strength of the airforce, but f00k man, chopping them into little pieces?
there are and never were any tomcats in the airforce.

thus the problem.

they were navy only.

just like f-15 were air force only.

f-18 was both iirc, which is why it supposedly was to replace both. Pluys the f-18 was also capable of being an attack platform versus interceptor only for the f-14.

now throw in that the 14 was also a variable wing sweep plane, which has tons of moving and highly difficult to service parts, and the fact that modern air combat rarely exceeds mach 1.1 anymore, and the platform did start to have drawbacks.


having said that, i'd still rather see the ability to shoot down the enemy over 100 miles away before they even had visual on you using what is still the most advanced interceptor based weapon/radar combination in history.

It's a lot easier to splash the bogies when they aren't even within launch range to your carrier.....

than to end up relying on the AEGIS system to shoot down the already inbound missiles......
R1Budha is offline  
post #12 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 12:21 PM
7c Forever
 
Junior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: the business end of a CAD station.
Posts: 9,879
  
sorry, that's what I meant.

I still think that the canuck airforce should have grabbed several. Aside from the intensive service procedures they fit our needs ideally. In that something like 4 squadrons patrol the entire country. Therefor supercruise, a long range and weaponry that can really reach out and touch somebody are critical. Same reasons they where good for carrier defense.

HAIL TO THE KING!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Junior is offline  
post #13 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 12:22 PM
Senior Member
 
Slickpitt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,198
 
Gah! What's Tom Cruise gonna fly around in now??


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Knowledge will cure ignorance, but you can't fix stupid
Slickpitt is offline  
post #14 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 12:22 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,350
  
oh and a phoenix is a great deterrent to terrorists and terrorist nations if you can shoot them down the minute the takeoff from their airfield......
R1Budha is offline  
post #15 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 12:23 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,350
  
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickpitt View Post
Gah! What's Tom Cruise gonna fly around in now??
A-4's obviously.......

just like Jester did.....
R1Budha is offline  
post #16 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 12:23 PM
7c Forever
 
Junior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: the business end of a CAD station.
Posts: 9,879
  
Quote:
Originally Posted by R1Budha View Post
oh and a phoenix is a great deterrent to terrorists and terrorist nations if you can shoot them down the minute the takeoff from their airfield......
dude if the terrorists get to a point that they have a standing airforce... we have a BIG problem.

HAIL TO THE KING!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Junior is offline  
post #17 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 12:27 PM
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 9,350
  
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior View Post
dude if the terrorists get to a point that they have a standing airforce... we have a BIG problem.
they do

they have access to every plane in the iranian air force
R1Budha is offline  
post #18 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 12:28 PM
7c Forever
 
Junior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: the business end of a CAD station.
Posts: 9,879
  
I'm not touching that with a 10' pole.

HAIL TO THE KING!!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Junior is offline  
post #19 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 12:59 PM
phil-osepher
 
kneedragger77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: El Mundo
Posts: 3,699
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R1Budha View Post
they do

they have access to every plane in the iranian air force
what...... bi-planes? :r1budha




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
kneedragger77 is offline  
post #20 of 86 (permalink) Old 07-02-2007, 02:47 PM
Ask the Chief
 
Firehawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Right here.
Posts: 10,687
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by R1Budha View Post
f-18 was both iirc, which is why it supposedly was to replace both. Pluys the f-18 was also capable of being an attack platform versus interceptor only for the f-14....
not true. enter LANTRIN.

the tomcat made a HIGHLY effective air to ground platform, with the ability to carry more ordnance to the fight and bring back more to the ship.....more than even the new-fangled 18E/F.

first-person conversations with team guys in iraq painted the tomcat as the aircraft that they wanted overhead. the team guys LOVED the tomcats for CAS and what they brought to the fight in the form of accuracy and concise communication. tomcat drivers might as well have been on the ground in the fight.

they HATED working with hornets.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Firehawk is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Sport Bike Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome