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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 08:34 AM Thread Starter
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For the Vets in the house

I read this article today, it is required reading for me as an officer and really puts things into perspective. I'll include some tid-bits here and link to the entire thing. It speaks of the huge responsibility of combat arms officers, but when you break it down it could really apply to all levels of leadership.

Preparing for the realities of killing the enemy and taking ground

Quote:
A combat arms officer's duty is to kill and train subordinates to kill. This is a blunt, hard, and honest statement. All combat officers, regardless of service, are expected to lead subordinates in situations where death and mass carnage are rampant.
To assist the officer in accomplishing this mission, doctrine was created to guide him in the employment of military assets. Using this doctrine and through field exercises, officers develop tactics, techniques, and procedures that are used in battle. Through this process and the reinforcement that occurs through training, the "skill to kill" is taught and continually reinforced. Most combat arms officers and their units show a general proficiency in this skill and are prepared to use it when the Nation calls on them to do so. It can therefore be argued that our military training is successful in instilling the skills to kill.
Quote:
"A combat officer must also expect that some men under his command will be killed. The manuals teach that an officer can expect to lose a certain percentage of men on any particular action. The casualties will be 5 percent, 20 percent, or 50 percent, and military strategies are developed on the basis of men killed. To the small unit commander, however, those will not be percentages but faces and names of men who cannot be forgotten in a lifetime. The young officer must realize that the losses among his men will already have been factored into strategic planning. Even if the officer does his job perfectly, he will lose men.
Quote:
Even with the Global War on Terrorism, a large portion of the U.S. military's officer corps have not been in combat, nor have they witnessed violent death. These same officers were raised in a society that rightly condemns the killing of another human as barbaric and indecent. Their mission is to take ground and kill the enemy, yet studies show that only two percent of the population is predisposed to kill with out hesitation or remorse. These facts are scientifically proven and still most combat arms officers receive very little, if any, type of lecture or class exposing them to these harsh realities. Even military institutions that teach these courses, such as the 10-week-long U.S. Marine Corp's Infantry Officer's Course (IOC) with its classes on killology, are not always successful in overriding 22 years of societal conditioning that killing is wrong.
Quote:
"Killing comes with a price, and society must learn that their soldiers will have to spend the rest of their lives living with what they have done."
Quote:
Talking about killing is not politically correct. It is a brutal subject that encompasses topics that have been labeled taboo by our society. However, as warriors who defend our society, we must not only talk about these emotions and topics, we must understand them and teach our subordinates to understand them as well. Through this process, we will not only arm and instill the warrior with the skill and will to kill, we will arm him with the support and tools needed to deal with the emotions he will experience when the battle is over and reflections begin.
Link to entire article:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...15979080/print


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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
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Kind of reminds me of a quote from George Orwell

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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.


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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 09:47 AM
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Good stuff.

Just call me Captain Crash...

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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 01:09 PM
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Just as i figured, written by an officer about officers.


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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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so you are saying it is inaccurate?


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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 04:52 PM
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I think anyone who is a vet knows what most officers do and don't do. Now I said "most" so don't forget that.


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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 04:56 PM
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haha never forget those hard hitting NCO's
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 05:35 PM
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snair: agreed snair. not saying all officers dont' see combat, but after being in i would rather have an nco by my side in combat then most officers. Unless he's in spec ops and an an officer...those guys are "warriors" through and through. When i was teaching SERE we had pj/cct/seal/delta and even SAS officers come through and those officers are awesome. They will dig a ditch right next to their men and do anything they order anyone to do. btw you ever here from stone? what happened to tiny?


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Last edited by gsxcorey; 12-07-2007 at 05:39 PM.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 06:28 PM
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hes dying trying to finish school. hes also killing himself trying to get ready for a big contest in march. ill let him know you asked.
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-08-2007, 07:52 PM
The answer? Simple: 42
 
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When did you re-enlist KD? I thought you were happier than pigs in mud during the summer heat to be out?
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-10-2007, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjorn View Post
When did you re-enlist KD? I thought you were happier than pigs in mud during the summer heat to be out?
One thing lead to another, and what I'm doing now couldn't be FARTHER from what I was doing.

Before, regular Active Duty on the enlisted side. With that came all those early morning PT sessions, 30 days in the field a few times a year plus the regular field time, moving every 3 years etc etc

Now, Active Duty on the Natl Guard side, as an officer. Dream job really. Facilitate the success of the traditional guardsman, get to live at home, same pay and benefits as regular AD.... Still get to wear the uniform daily...

I really had trouble swallowing the corp america pill, a bunch of fake ass people wearing smiles and expensive suits...I fit in decently but had to restrain from cussing idiots out on a daily basis. Here, we obviously have no restrictions on that. If someone is a dumbass, you tell them they are and they correct the problem. No retarted HR complaints Plus, I just feel like there is genuine purpose in what I do which is satisfying. Before, I felt as if all my efforts just went to fill the pockets of the senior execs and boost our stock price.


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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-10-2007, 04:00 PM
The answer? Simple: 42
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kneedragger77 View Post
One thing lead to another, and what I'm doing now couldn't be FARTHER from what I was doing.

Before, regular Active Duty on the enlisted side. With that came all those early morning PT sessions, 30 days in the field a few times a year plus the regular field time, moving every 3 years etc etc

Now, Active Duty on the Natl Guard side, as an officer. Dream job really. Facilitate the success of the traditional guardsman, get to live at home, same pay and benefits as regular AD.... Still get to wear the uniform daily...

I really had trouble swallowing the corp america pill, a bunch of fake ass people wearing smiles and expensive suits...I fit in decently but had to restrain from cussing idiots out on a daily basis. Here, we obviously have no restrictions on that. If someone is a dumbass, you tell them they are and they correct the problem. No retarted HR complaints Plus, I just feel like there is genuine purpose in what I do which is satisfying. Before, I felt as if all my efforts just went to fill the pockets of the senior execs and boost our stock price.
Some of us didn't mind the moving, morning PT, etc. But, sounds like you're doing what you enjoy, which is good.

My last duty station was active duty at a reserve unit. Left a massive distaste for anyone in the Guards/Reserves because the lack of discipline compared to when I was active duty. I saw all five branches of the military when I was there, and they were all shitbirds to me.

I have problems dealing with corporate America as well. That's why I'm only dealing with it for a while, then buying a bunch of property and not have to deal with anyone.
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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-10-2007, 05:57 PM
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fjorn i ran into the same thing you did. Went to guard from active duty and after 2 years pretty much demanded to be let out for the same reasons you mentioned.

Fjorn just don't become a hermit on your property too much We don't need a unabomber on a dirtbike j/k Still doing your lifting? I just got back into it.


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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-10-2007, 06:02 PM
The answer? Simple: 42
 
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Two years? Wow, I had enough after three months of AD at a reserve unit. I was begging to go back to the fleet before my hardship discharge was approved.

Hermit? Nah. I'll still mingle with people, but I'm hoping to have enough money to pay for the property and build a small house outright. At that point, I'd have no issues with quitting what I do and go work at some bait shop or small town store near where the home is.

As to lifting. No, that's pretty much over with. Check the shoulder surgery thread in rider fitness for the highlight. Or, rather the lowlights.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-10-2007, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjorn View Post
Some of us didn't mind the moving, morning PT, etc. But, sounds like you're doing what you enjoy, which is good.

My last duty station was active duty at a reserve unit. Left a massive distaste for anyone in the Guards/Reserves because the lack of discipline compared to when I was active duty. I saw all five branches of the military when I was there, and they were all shitbirds to me.

I have problems dealing with corporate America as well. That's why I'm only dealing with it for a while, then buying a bunch of property and not have to deal with anyone.

I don't mind doing PT, I just like doing it on my own terms. Right now I lift (heavier) 3 times a week from 0630 to 0730, and circuit train/cardio 4 times a week in the evening. Sundays I play full court bball for 3 to 4 hours. Good, hard PT, but on my terms. Not standing out in the weather doing pushups and flutterkicks early in the morning, shuffling in formation runs singing cadence...

Also, the reserve/guard force have gone serious changes since 9-11. More $$, tons more deployments, and surge of those coming off active duty with deployments under their belt, and out with the fatbodies that can't hack it.... I got it, still isn't full time, but vast improvements have been made....


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Last edited by kneedragger77; 12-10-2007 at 06:06 PM.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-10-2007, 08:34 PM
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fjorn i know what you mean. I'm not lifting for max size/strength anymore and I never thought I would say that. I'm trying to get toned and just get big, but not huge anymore. Benching near 300 for 10 reps is plenty for me...done going for the max as it's just too hard on the body. Maybe i'm getting old or smart lol


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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-10-2007, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxcorey View Post
fjorn i know what you mean. I'm not lifting for max size/strength anymore and I never thought I would say that. I'm trying to get toned and just get big, but not huge anymore. Benching near 300 for 10 reps is plenty for me...done going for the max as it's just too hard on the body. Maybe i'm getting old or smart lol

damn Corey, I could have written that post

I guess as you get older, you still want to be in shape but the need to "lift the gym" is not as strong. I still like to max out every now and then, just to see where I'm at, but I don't try to kill myself in the gym anymore. I stopped doing crap like deadlifts and squats too. For what? I'm not playing football anymore

Heck, even being able to push 315 ONCE on the bench probably puts you in the top 5% of most average people that go to the gym.


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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-10-2007, 09:12 PM
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i haven't maxed out since junior high when i was forced to. I guess unless you're competing i don't see a point. Lowest reps i ever go to are 6 and that's even when i'm trying to get big, but from now on i don't feel the need to every go above upper 200's on bench for 10 reps. Just got a membership to anytime fitness and the weights don't go that high which will stop me from trying to lift huge numbers. just want to stay in damn good shape and call it good.

I got out of it when i started MM as I was going to school full time and running MM. Didn't have time to lift at all. Now that MM is stable and more employees I actually have a life again LOL


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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-11-2007, 04:31 AM
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Deadlifts and squats are very much core exercises. Want to be in the best shape possible? Work the body as a whole.

While I can't lift, I've been working more on cardio and calisthenics. Can't do much because of the shoulder, and I'm unable to get the heart rate high enough to tax the body like it needs to be. But, gotta do something.
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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 12-11-2007, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxcorey View Post
i haven't maxed out since junior high when i was forced to. I guess unless you're competing i don't see a point. Lowest reps i ever go to are 6 and that's even when i'm trying to get big, but from now on i don't feel the need to every go above upper 200's on bench for 10 reps. Just got a membership to anytime fitness and the weights don't go that high which will stop me from trying to lift huge numbers. just want to stay in damn good shape and call it good.

I got out of it when i started MM as I was going to school full time and running MM. Didn't have time to lift at all. Now that MM is stable and more employees I actually have a life again LOL
I only do it about once every 6 months, probably just because I think it is fun and why not see what you can do every now and then? I don't do it to impress anyone, as I usually work out alone, but it's always nice to know you can push xxx weight still. Personally, I get more out of dumbell presses and hammer strength type machines than a flat bench, but I like to mix it up often to keep things interesting. At the end of the day, if you leave the gym with a good burn you've done well for yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fjorn View Post
Deadlifts and squats are very much core exercises. Want to be in the best shape possible? Work the body as a whole.

While I can't lift, I've been working more on cardio and calisthenics. Can't do much because of the shoulder, and I'm unable to get the heart rate high enough to tax the body like it needs to be. But, gotta do something.
Much like you, getting older and injuries have hampered my ability to do some exercises. Deadlifts and squats are some of those. For my lower body there are some exercises I do in circuit training, and I run and ruckmarch as well...I just have neither the need or desire to pick up 400 lbs with my legs and lower back anymore

Lately I've really been killing it on my abs. I really try to mix up the exercises, keep things interesting and unusual.


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