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post #1 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-15-2008, 08:02 AM Thread Starter
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Hey military guys...

My daughter sent me this from Iraq....she is in an 18 month tour....suggestions?

"Dad,

I am having some serious issues out here with my chain of command and I need some advice from you and your military friends. Basically, yesterday, while walking to the chow hall, I failed to render the greeting of the day to the Command Sergeant Major and the Colonel, both of whom I did not see because I was standing in between two t-wall barriers. When I was on the spot corrected I went to parade rest and said nothing but Roger that Sergeant Major, I was told I was not allowed to speak, and that I hoped I liked being an E-5 because I wouldn't be one by the end of the day. He then said for me to get my entire chain of command in his office in one hour. I took my chain of command in there and he told me I was disrespectful to him and the colonel and that I was nothing to him because I was a Military Intelligence soldier and that we were worthless to the fight out here, he said because I was not a tanker or grunt I was useless. And because I was disrespectful I was to get on a plane tonight to Taji, with another unit because he didn't want to see my face anymore.

After this tranpired by immediate supervisors fought so that I wouldn't be moved. the Squadron Sergeant Major ordered me to his office with my chain of command and told me that I have always been disrespectful to him and others and that I was to be given a field grade article 15, relief for cause NCOER and I was to be permanently moved to work under him doing non-intel related work so that he could teach me how to be a non-commissioned officer. Now, I have already contacted the Equal Opportunity, Inspector general, I have a lawyer, I've written to my congressman, I've been to the chaplain. No-one can help me get out of my hostile work environment. I have never received a negative counseling from anyone in the 2 years of being in the ARMY. I won soldier of the year at this Sergaent Major's Board last year. And they are making an example out of me now."

Steve
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post #2 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-15-2008, 01:02 PM
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Damn bro....I don't know what to say. Sounds like the entire chain of command has aligned against her. No real recourse in that situation, other than to file a greivance with her CMEO office (Command Equal Opportunity Office). When it rains, it pours, and it seems the stars are lined up against her. What a shitty thing to happen. I'd have her hire a lawyer when she gets home and fight it.


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post #3 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-15-2008, 01:10 PM
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Wow that is tooo. bad.
Not to be disrespectful to all the service men and women out there, Both Canadian and American. I highly appreciate the stuff they have to put up with and the sacrifices they make so I can say my piece but this is the very reason why I never joined the Army.

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post #4 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-15-2008, 01:44 PM
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what bullshit. fucking pukes. they must be some kind of remfs both the col and the smaj
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post #5 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-15-2008, 01:55 PM
 
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yup i call some BS for the Sgt. Maj. he should not be acting that way especially out in the field. is the base commander against her too, possible to go to him/her and see what they say. I know when pops was at Ft. benning anybody E-6 and below was pretty much dirt to the commander but it's worth a shot. How long has she been there so far?
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post #6 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-15-2008, 02:23 PM
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Thats BS! I hate this kind of shit. I am certain she is being made an example of because she is an MI Soldier and they are dumb grunts. I honestly can't wait until November... I'll be out after 7 1/2 years.

The best she can do is get with IG and a lawyer... :/ I've seen Article 15s with actual weight be squashed by IG.
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post #7 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-15-2008, 02:28 PM
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Tell her if it comes to it she needs to opt for a Court Martial... I would never stand down and take an unjust Article 15.
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post #8 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-15-2008, 02:56 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rican1884 View Post
yup i call some BS for the Sgt. Maj. he should not be acting that way especially out in the field. is the base commander against her too, possible to go to him/her and see what they say. I know when pops was at Ft. benning anybody E-6 and below was pretty much dirt to the commander but it's worth a shot. How long has she been there so far?
been over there since Oct/Nov on 18 month tour...

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post #9 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-15-2008, 05:14 PM
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There are always two sides to every story...

Without knowing all the facts it is hard to offer advice. She has already contacted everybody in the world (EOO, IG, Chaps, Congressman, lawyer, chain of command...).
I find it difficult to believe TWO Sergeant's Major and a Colonel are out to crush an "E-5" for failing to render a proper greeting (I have had similar run-ins with some bone-headed Army full birds out there but this is pretty over the top even for them).
Lastly, as a point of referance since I am not in the Army; standing at parade rest and saying "Roger that Sergeant Major." as you are getting your ass chewed is likely to get yourself choke-slammed in the Marine Corps.
The proper customs and courtesies are to stand at the position of attention, answer questions with a "Yes, Sergeant Major!"; "No, Sergeant Major!"; and acknowledge orders and commands with an "Aye, aye, Sergeant Major!"


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post #10 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-15-2008, 05:37 PM
 
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That sux!! I've never had to deal w/ that on that level... it's just usually some over weight 1st class w/ Napoleon Syndrome that I have to deal w/. All I can say, is I'm glad that I'm not in another branch, as I tend to speak my mind no matter who I'm standing in front of. Though I see what Ronin is getting at, There's a lot of times where us junior people are not being disrespectful (smart-assed), but the superior is so pissy that no matter what we say it seams to come out wrong. But I agree, it's tuff to say w/ out having both sides. Hopefully, it'll all get sorted out and eventually forgotten....
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post #11 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-15-2008, 05:55 PM
 
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It seems that the higher the rank the easier the ego is bruised! They are deployed and i'm positive that there are more pressing matters than not being noticed. We had 3 brand new guys get in major trouble just last week for not wearing a hat and not recognizing the base commander. The base commander was not in uniform but still wasnt happy about the incident. He was so pissed that he pulled them off the flying schedule until further notice. some people just dont get the "Big Picture"...
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post #12 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-15-2008, 06:27 PM
 
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def. think if she gets back and she has the opt. for the court martial she will prob. win and the 2 other dickwads will probably get a remedial class on how to properly correct a troop. Marine corps is quite different ya'll are def. a different breed in mentality. I just really think the higher ups were trying to impress each other. but she is in the fucking desert and she is a female so she may be able to blame it on the high sexual stress.....LOL i'm not trying to be an asshole just thought of lightening it up a bit.

ooo and i wouldn't be surprised if they were army reservists and not full active duty, those dillwads tend to go over the top also.

Last edited by rican1884; 03-15-2008 at 06:27 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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post #13 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-15-2008, 07:54 PM
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Steve tell her to get on a plane to Canada

No really that sucks

Maybe because shes a woman they have it in for her?:


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post #14 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-15-2008, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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smart woman....more than likely....

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post #15 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-15-2008, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
There are always two sides to every story...

Without knowing all the facts it is hard to offer advice. She has already contacted everybody in the world (EOO, IG, Chaps, Congressman, lawyer, chain of command...).
I find it difficult to believe TWO Sergeant's Major and a Colonel are out to crush an "E-5" for failing to render a proper greeting (I have had similar run-ins with some bone-headed Army full birds out there but this is pretty over the top even for them).
Lastly, as a point of referance since I am not in the Army; standing at parade rest and saying "Roger that Sergeant Major." as you are getting your ass chewed is likely to get yourself choke-slammed in the Marine Corps.
The proper customs and courtesies are to stand at the position of attention, answer questions with a "Yes, Sergeant Major!"; "No, Sergeant Major!"; and acknowledge orders and commands with an "Aye, aye, Sergeant Major!"
you beat me to it Alex, My thoughts exactly. before I'd give ANY type of advice OR criticism, Id have to know the WHOLE story, from whay I've seen , been involved with and know about the military, Im just guessig she may have done some things we dont know about. just guessing too, if in deed she is being railroaded there are things that can be done and it looks like shes done about all of them... now with that said the actions she has taken will stirr up some REAL Sh*T and she BETTER have her ducks in line when the time comes or it could get worse... I hope everything works out for her though....


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post #16 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-16-2008, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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Just got this from her:

Is the Army really this frucked up, or does she have an attitude problem?

Dad I don't think you realize how bad this situation is. When they read me my rights and my ART 15 tomorrow, I have the option of either taking it or requesting a trial by court martial, I will not take this as I did nothing wrong and they have no paperwork of me ever being a disciplinary problem. If i lose the court martial (this means my Colonel and Sergaent major have to take the stand) I get character witnesses of course, but I lose everything, my security clearance, my rank, pay for a month and I may even be dishonorably discharged from the ARMY. Do you understand the gravity of the situation now?

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post #17 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-16-2008, 03:56 PM
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Wow, this really blows, I hope it works out for her. It sounds like they are purely just trying to make an example out of her.
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post #18 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-16-2008, 09:47 PM
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Tell her to stick to her guns.... fook em.



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post #19 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-17-2008, 05:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
There are always two sides to every story...

Without knowing all the facts it is hard to offer advice. She has already contacted everybody in the world (EOO, IG, Chaps, Congressman, lawyer, chain of command...).
I find it difficult to believe TWO Sergeant's Major and a Colonel are out to crush an "E-5" for failing to render a proper greeting (I have had similar run-ins with some bone-headed Army full birds out there but this is pretty over the top even for them).
Lastly, as a point of referance since I am not in the Army; standing at parade rest and saying "Roger that Sergeant Major." as you are getting your ass chewed is likely to get yourself choke-slammed in the Marine Corps.
The proper customs and courtesies are to stand at the position of attention, answer questions with a "Yes, Sergeant Major!"; "No, Sergeant Major!"; and acknowledge orders and commands with an "Aye, aye, Sergeant Major!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by No1stunner View Post
you beat me to it Alex, My thoughts exactly. before I'd give ANY type of advice OR criticism, Id have to know the WHOLE story, from whay I've seen , been involved with and know about the military, Im just guessig she may have done some things we dont know about. just guessing too, if in deed she is being railroaded there are things that can be done and it looks like shes done about all of them... now with that said the actions she has taken will stirr up some REAL Sh*T and she BETTER have her ducks in line when the time comes or it could get worse... I hope everything works out for her though....
I'll add to both of these as well...

To me, it sounds like she isn't telling things the way they played out. This may be either willingly, or she may not realize what she did wrong.

To me, being at parade rest and saying "Roger that Sgt. Major" is a slap in the face of your higher command if she wasn't told to go to parade rest. If she was, then there could be something else such as her attitude, how she looked at them, etc.

Personally, if it was me, I'd just take the Article 15. Yes, it'll mark her to some degree. But, most people will blow it off after a year as long as she doesn't screw up again or bad mouth the situation when discussing it. As an FYI, I had an article 15, and it was the first thing that's looked at, and was asked about. When I explained that I made a bad decision, and I learned from my mistake, it was usually dropped without another word.

Some words of advice to your daughter: She's in the military, and while it's changed since I was in to a "Kinder, softer, and gentler" military, it IS the military and she is in the desert after all. Suck it up, learn and move on. By contacting the people she did, she's going to find herself in a huge world of hurt for quite a while.

Best to her on it though.
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post #20 of 54 (permalink) Old 03-17-2008, 06:17 AM
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I'll add to both of these as well...

To me, it sounds like she isn't telling things the way they played out. This may be either willingly, or she may not realize what she did wrong.

To me, being at parade rest and saying "Roger that Sgt. Major" is a slap in the face of your higher command if she wasn't told to go to parade rest. If she was, then there could be something else such as her attitude, how she looked at them, etc.

Personally, if it was me, I'd just take the Article 15. Yes, it'll mark her to some degree. But, most people will blow it off after a year as long as she doesn't screw up again or bad mouth the situation when discussing it. As an FYI, I had an article 15, and it was the first thing that's looked at, and was asked about. When I explained that I made a bad decision, and I learned from my mistake, it was usually dropped without another word.

Some words of advice to your daughter: She's in the military, and while it's changed since I was in to a "Kinder, softer, and gentler" military, it IS the military and she is in the desert after all. Suck it up, learn and move on. By contacting the people she did, she's going to find herself in a huge world of hurt for quite a while.

Best to her on it though.
unless its changed which it may have the proper thing to do when addressed by the senior nco is to stand at parade rest unless she was told to stand at attention. if the col had jammed her it would have been appropriate to stand at attention. i agree with the gunnys about the yes and no replies. i guess it depends on what her chain of command accepts, i have never said roger that to a csm but in the units i have been assigned to that would not have been an acceptable reply ever. i still think its kind of chicken shit though. the csm should have jammed her and then went about his day.
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