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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 12:15 AM Thread Starter
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Glock anyone?

Not sure where to post this so I posted in here.

I have a almost brand new Glock 40.cal Model 22 for sale. I bought it brand new about 8 months ago and only put around 250 rounds through it or so. Cleaned after every shooting. Looks as good if not better than the day I bought it brand new. I paid $592 OTD. Willing to let go for $450. FIRM!

I'm in Eau Claire. Willing to ship anywhere but I'd have to check with the local PD and ask what the laws are regarding purchase and transfer of firearms as I am not knowledgable at all when it comes to that.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 12:26 AM Thread Starter
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Pictures taken from my Blackberry so the quality isn't that great. You all know what they look like though.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Matt View Post
Pictures taken from my Blackberry so the quality isn't that great. You all know what they look like though.
I might know someone that may want it. He was looking for a Glock 9mm, but local PD here carry the 40 also.


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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 09:55 AM
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what I was told or have experienced:


the department of alcohol tobacco and firearms (ATF) frowns on individuals selling guns to other individuals . the only safe way to sell a gun Is thru a gun dealer , failure to do this can land you in prison.

David
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macattack View Post
what I was told or have experienced:


the department of alcohol tobacco and firearms (ATF) frowns on individuals selling guns to other individuals . the only safe way to sell a gun Is thru a gun dealer , failure to do this can land you in prison.
That's not true at all, in any way shape or form.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 03:20 PM
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If you sell your gun to one of the ATF's pigeons who happens to be a felon then you go to prison.

selling a gun to a convicted felon is a federal offense .

selling a handgun to a person then they commit a crime with said gun leaves you some explaining .


its a handgun not a capgun it is registered in your name for a reason and require a transfer of ownership the only safe way to do it is thu a dealer imo.

David
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macattack View Post
If you sell your gun to one of the ATF's pigeons who happens to be a felon then you go to prison.

selling a gun to a convicted felon is a federal offense .

selling a handgun to a person then they commit a crime with said gun leaves you some explaining .


its a handgun not a capgun it is registered in your name for a reason and require a transfer of ownership the only safe way to do it is thu a dealer imo.
There has to be a way to transfer name of ownership of the gun without going through a dealer. Possibly the state? I don't know like I said I know nothing about how it works. It just seems weird that you can't sell a gun legally without going through a dealer. I hear of people selling pistols all the time. I hope there is a way.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt View Post
There has to be a way to transfer name of ownership of the gun without going through a dealer. Possibly the state? I don't know like I said I know nothing about how it works. It just seems weird that you can't sell a gun legally without going through a dealer. I hear of people selling pistols all the time. I hope there is a way.
I think it may also be illegal to sell guns from one state to another , its a logical federal law if you think about it . it is also the reason internet gun sales may be in some ways tough to do .

if you ask enough people you will eventually hear the answer you will want to hear it is not always the correct answer though.

I don't know all the federal laws and of course may be wrong at any given point lol. To me thou It would not be worth any amount of money to have a gun registered in my name in someone else's hands.
maybe a local gun dealer could sell it for you or if you find a buyer he can do the transfer for you since he is legally able to do a transfer and a background check .

David
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 05:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macattack View Post
I think it may also be illegal to sell guns from one state to another , its a logical federal law if you think about it . it is also the reason internet gun sales may be in some ways tough to do .

if you ask enough people you will eventually hear the answer you will want to hear it is not always the correct answer though.

I don't know all the federal laws and of course may be wrong at any given point lol. To me thou It would not be worth any amount of money to have a gun registered in my name in someone else's hands.
maybe a local gun dealer could sell it for you or if you find a buyer he can do the transfer for you since he is legally able to do a transfer and a background check .
I completely understand what you are saying. And I would NEVER sell my gun to ANYONE without making sure the gun was no longer in my name. Last thing I need is to sell my gun to someone who decides to kill someone......then forensics finds out that "gee......this bullet came from a glock that is owned by Matt".

I think what I will do is just contact the local PD and see if they can't give me a little more info. Thank's Mac.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 06:03 PM
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I think Mac is correct the only way to transfer ownership is through a dealer or broker. It's not something you can do one on one anymore...



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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 06:11 PM
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You don't need any paper work to sell a handgun face to face. You hand the guy gun, he hands you money. It'd be in your best interest to check his/her driver's license as you can't sell to a person from another State. If it makes you feel good make up a bill of sale and make a photo copy of their driver's license. Or ask to see their CCW if they have one, as then you know they've had a background check complete. Internet gun sales are just as easy. You just have to send the gun from a gun shop, using their FFL, to another gun shop using their FFL.

And you are not responsible if someone kills someone with a gun you sold them. Whether your name is registered on it or not.

Always check your State laws, but I assure you the Federal Gov't doesn't have a law against face to face gun sales.

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I think Mac is correct the only way to transfer ownership is through a dealer or broker. It's not something you can do one on one anymore...
You live in the Republic of Kalifornia, that and New York might be the only places where you can't do it. But I know for a fact it is legal in Missouri. Hell in Missouri you don't even need a gun permit anymore to buy from a gun store. You go to gun store fill out a form, they make a phone call to the FBI you walk out with a gun 5 minutes later.

Here are a list of people selling FTF in Wisconsin from Glocktalk.com
Glock Talk

It's legal in your State too.

Last edited by Riley42; 03-01-2009 at 06:11 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 06:42 PM
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???

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This varies from state to state, with different rules applying to handguns and long guns. Some states are really draconian; others quite liberal. From the perspective of the federal government (and thus applying to all states), a handgun can only be transferred through an Federal Firearms Licensee (i.e., licensed gun dealer). Rifles with barrels of 15" or more and shotguns with barrels over 18" can be sold privately. Shorter barreled long arms and fully automatic weapons are subject to totally different rules and can only be transferred by a Class III FFL dealer, require a payment of $200, and a very extensive background check.
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 06:50 PM
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as far as i know in colorado you can sell your gun to anyone w/o papers or a background check if you are a individual.


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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 07:22 PM
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riley42 I don't want to piss you off but You came at me and said what I originally said was completely false , I was basing my statement on the federal laws against selling a hand gun to an convicted felon:
Federal law prohibits selling any firearm or ammunition to a person who is prohibited by law from possessing firearms, such as a felon, fugitive, etc. [18 USC 922(d)] and prohibits selling any firearm or ammunition known to be stolen [18 USC 922(j)].

and out of state gun sales : Federal law prohibits selling a handgun to a resident of another state and prohibits selling a rifle or shotgun to a non-resident if the sale would violate state law. [18 USC 922(b)(3)]. Individuals are prohibited from buying a handgun out-of-state [18 USC 922(a)(3)]. FFLs may sell at gun shows in their state only [18 USC 923(j)].

now you are talking local laws and some face to face sales.
it is still up to you and your lawyer to prove you did not shoot the person if your gun is found at the crime scene , then you must explain how the guy in Texas got your gun registered in missouri etc.
not to mention there is no way face to face to find out if the person you are selling to is a convicted felon It is not worth ten years in jail to sell a gun to someone .
without the google I was also basing my warning of the atf on what I was told that the federal laws also require transfer of ownership of all handguns . this is totally logical and the instant background check at a dealership by a gun dealer selling a gun to a person has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.
anyway Riley I really don't want to get into a heated argument I think it is real good to air this stuff out.

Like you I don't like to be told I am wrong, google all the info you want believe the glock forums if you want , but I have lived through it. the ATF is no joke and if you own a hand gun don't sell it to a person you don't know or do the right thing and get the registration transferred properly.

David
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R1Lover View Post
???

LINK
That's a wiki link. I could type something the opposite and make it a wiki answer that wouldn't make it true. It doesn't even give the US codes that would say it's true. It might be, but I don't believe that's the correct wording.

Quote:
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riley42 I don't want to piss you off but You came at me and said what I originally said was completely false , I was basing my statement on the federal laws against selling a hand gun to an convicted felon:
Federal law prohibits selling any firearm or ammunition to a person who is prohibited by law from possessing firearms, such as a felon, fugitive, etc. [18 USC 922(d)] and prohibits selling any firearm or ammunition known to be stolen [18 USC 922(j)].

and out of state gun sales : Federal law prohibits selling a handgun to a resident of another state and prohibits selling a rifle or shotgun to a non-resident if the sale would violate state law. [18 USC 922(b)(3)]. Individuals are prohibited from buying a handgun out-of-state [18 USC 922(a)(3)]. FFLs may sell at gun shows in their state only [18 USC 923(j)].

now you are talking local laws and some face to face sales.
it is still up to you and your lawyer to prove you did not shoot the person if your gun is found at the crime scene , then you must explain how the guy in Texas got your gun registered in missouri etc.
not to mention there is no way face to face to find out if the person you are selling to is a convicted felon It is not worth ten years in jail to sell a gun to someone .
without the google I was also basing my warning of the atf on what I was told that the federal laws also require transfer of ownership of all handguns . this is totally logical and the instant background check at a dealership by a gun dealer selling a gun to a person has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.
anyway Riley I really don't want to get into a heated argument I think it is real good to air this stuff out.

Like you I don't like to be told I am wrong, google all the info you want believe the glock forums if you want , but I have lived through it. the ATF is no joke and if you own a hand gun don't sell it to a person you don't know or do the right thing and get the registration transferred properly.
Yes it's illegal to sell a firearm to a convicted felon, but it is not illegal to just sell it a normal person, based on local state laws.
You said, and what I said was false was, if you don't sell your gun through a licensed dealer you'll go to prison that is completely and utterly false. If it were true, about 20 of the people I work with would be in prison including me. And it is not up to me and my lawyer to prove that I didn't shoot someone it's up to the prosecutor to prove I did. Just because I owned something at one point in time doesn't make me forever responsible for it's actions. I'm not trying to make you mad, and maybe I came off a bit harsh, but I don't want the poor guy thinking he has to get ripped off by a dealer, which is exactly what will happen if that's how he sells his gun.

Always check your local laws before doing anything that might get you in trouble. Straw sales are completely illegal and will land you in prison I completely agree with you, but do you think that glocktalk.com is just full of federal law breakers that are giving their names, addresses and phone numbers out to whoever? If it were illegal thousands of people wouldn't be advertising that they're doing it everyday.
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 07:43 PM
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this is from the atf website supporting what Riley said about face to face sales. again I have dealt with the atf so I know they frown on individual sales and they will try to get you to sell to one of their prepped felons so you violate federal law so if you decide to sell to an individual it is best to do the paperwork transfer thru a licensed ffl dealer :

(B16) What record-keeping procedures should be followed when two private individuals want to engage in a firearms transaction?

When a transaction takes place between private (unlicensed) persons who reside in the same State, the Gun Control Act (GCA) does not require any record keeping. A private person may sell a firearm to another private individual in his or her State of residence and, similarly, a private individual may buy a firearm from another private person who resides in the same State. It is not necessary under Federal law for a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) to assist in the sale or transfer when the buyer and seller are "same-State" residents. Of course, the transferor/seller may not knowingly transfer a firearm to someone who falls within any of the categories of prohibited persons contained in the GCA. See 18 U.S. C. 922(g) and (n). However, as stated above, there are no GCA-required records to be completed by either party to the transfer.

There may be State or local laws or regulations that govern this type of transaction. Contact State Police units or the office of your State Attorney General for information on any such requirements.

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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riley42 View Post
That's a wiki link. I could type something the opposite and make it a wiki answer that wouldn't make it true. It doesn't even give the US codes that would say it's true. It might be, but I don't believe that's the correct wording.



Yes it's illegal to sell a firearm to a convicted felon, but it is not illegal to just sell it a normal person, based on local state laws.
You said, and what I said was false was, if you don't sell your gun through a licensed dealer you'll go to prison that is completely and utterly false. If it were true, about 20 of the people I work with would be in prison including me. And it is not up to me and my lawyer to prove that I didn't shoot someone it's up to the prosecutor to prove I did. Just because I owned something at one point in time doesn't make me forever responsible for it's actions. I'm not trying to make you mad, and maybe I came off a bit harsh, but I don't want the poor guy thinking he has to get ripped off by a dealer, which is exactly what will happen if that's how he sells his gun.

Always check your local laws before doing anything that might get you in trouble. Straw sales are completely illegal and will land you in prison I completely agree with you, but do you think that glocktalk.com is just full of federal law breakers that are giving their names, addresses and phone numbers out to whoever? If it were illegal thousands of people wouldn't be advertising that they're doing it everyday.
I said the words CAN LAND YOU IN PRISON not will go to prison . I didnt expect an apology . but now I want you to re-read and then tell me I was wrong and completely wrong .

I said :the department of alcohol tobacco and firearms (ATF) frowns on individuals selling guns to other individuals . the only safe way to sell a gun Is thru a gun dealer , failure to do this can land you in prison. <--- completely true , I don't like being misquoted.

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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 07:56 PM
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There are some States tho where it is illegal so you HAVE to check your local laws I can't stress that enough. Making sure the person has a concealed weapons permit through your State is a good way of making sure they weren't a convicted felon as of the time they received the permit. In Missouri if you're convicted of a Felony your CCW permit is revoked, and you turn it in to the Court I'm sure most State's have something similar. If you make photocopies of a driver's license, CCW, have a bill of sale you've built yourself a decent defense that you did everything in your power to buy or sell a gun from a legit person.

I'm sorry I read this
"the only safe way to sell a gun Is thru a gun dealer , failure to do this can land you in prison."
as it will. I apologize for misquoting you, but it's the way I read it, and I feared he would too.

I'm really not trying to make you mad.

Last edited by Riley42; 03-01-2009 at 07:58 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riley42 View Post
There are some States tho where it is illegal so you HAVE to check your local laws I can't stress that enough. Making sure the person has a concealed weapons permit through your State is a good way of making sure they weren't a convicted felon as of the time they received the permit. In Missouri if you're convicted of a Felony your CCW permit is revoked, and you turn it in to the Court I'm sure most State's have something similar. If you make photocopies of a driver's license, CCW, have a bill of sale you've built yourself a decent defense that you did everything in your power to buy or sell a gun from a legit person.

I'm sorry I read this
"the only safe way to sell a gun Is thru a gun dealer , failure to do this can land you in prison."
as it will. I apologize for misquoting you, but it's the way I read it, and I feared he would too.

I'm really not trying to make you mad.
FEAR NOT I understand what you are saying

I know the idea of selling a gun makes me nervous and mainly because handguns are a real problem in this country I was basing my advice on an experience or run in I had with the law. there is a cop facing fed charges now for selling a gun to a felon here in indiana I find it real cool we can discuss things especially involving guns and not get into a heated argument so I will say I was right and you were wrong


kidding
I already proved you were right on face to face sales I just wouldn't do it without a transfer , no hard feelings here and thanks for the apology .

David
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2009, 08:21 PM
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Well as long as you aren't mad because that definitely wasn't my intent, just a misunderstanding on my behalf
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