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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-15-2009, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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The Only True Thing Obama Has Said!!

President Barack Obama's candid thoughts about Kanye West are provoking a debate over standards of journalism in the Twitter age.

ABC News says it was wrong for its employees to tweet that Obama had called West a "jackass" for the rapper's treatment of country singer Taylor Swift. The network said some of its employees had overheard a conversation between the president and CNBC's John Harwood and didn't realize it was considered off the record.


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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-15-2009, 07:37 PM
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If only it was ok for him to say shit like that on the record.

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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-15-2009, 10:17 PM
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GW must be laughing his ass off in presidential retirement about now
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-15-2009, 11:41 PM
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why not say it on the record
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2009, 09:26 AM
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Since when is a President "off the record"?

There's so many things wrong with this administration it's horrible. Even more so is the fact that the mainstream media is doing everything it can to shield him. Clinton used to be the media's favorite president. Now, they're so in bed with this administration...
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2009, 01:01 PM
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Meh, I think he's doing a good job. He inherited a horrible recession, and is getting the country through it. He wants to help citizens who can't afford the crazy prices for health insurance. I really don't understand all the fear of having some sort of public health care option available. He's not even talking about a full system like Canada has, just an option from the government. I think a vast majority of people in the US that are against this don't even know what it's all about. They hear the republicans screaming stupid things like death squads or other baseless garbage, and take it as fact. I know the democrats do very shady shit too when they are not in power, it's a endless cycle of just putting down the other side even when they have good ideas.

I don't know why Americans think it's OK for a FOR-PROFIT company to be deciding if you should be covered for something or not. it's in their best interest to deny you and jack your rates up at every opportunity. A non-profit system is needed for health care. Non profits charge only enough to break even.

I don't like other things that have been done on his watch, like the "buy american" provisions. Those make voters feel good, but in the long term they hurt you far more as other countries react in kind and you have no where to export your goods. Protectionism rarely does anything good.


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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2009, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by GreenEnvy View Post
Meh, I think he's doing a good job. He inherited a horrible recession, and is getting the country through it. He wants to help citizens who can't afford the crazy prices for health insurance. I really don't understand all the fear of having some sort of public health care option available. He's not even talking about a full system like Canada has, just an option from the government. I think a vast majority of people in the US that are against this don't even know what it's all about. They hear the republicans screaming stupid things like death squads or other baseless garbage, and take it as fact. I know the democrats do very shady shit too when they are not in power, it's a endless cycle of just putting down the other side even when they have good ideas.

I don't know why Americans think it's OK for a FOR-PROFIT company to be deciding if you should be covered for something or not. it's in their best interest to deny you and jack your rates up at every opportunity. A non-profit system is needed for health care. Non profits charge only enough to break even.

I don't like other things that have been done on his watch, like the "buy american" provisions. Those make voters feel good, but in the long term they hurt you far more as other countries react in kind and you have no where to export your goods. Protectionism rarely does anything good.
I have issues with it because he's already outspent every president combined up until now. If you're trying to make cuts to survive, how can you spend money you don't have? Also, why is gov't growing at such an astronomical rate? That isn't just Obama, it also goes with Bush as well.

For me, you can't have an "optional" choice when you're going to fine people who don't carry insurance. That's forcing it upon someone. I don't have health insurance. Nor, can I get on a private policy due to pre-existing conditions and having policies rescinded on me. I would rather take the money which uselessly goes to insurance premiums and put into a bank account. Where is it in my best interest to force me to pay $3800 per year (or more if I have insurance) when I spend about $1000/year on medical expenses? If it's going to be a true "option" then we should also have the option to opt out of anything.

I agree with you though about the For-profit business model. many people are falling into the fear brought on by the insurance companies.

There's countless other things wrong with this administration as well as this cycle of congress.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2009, 01:59 PM
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you're right Fjorn, it's not an option and you're getting shafted. Have you written to anybody about your circumstances? I'm pretty sure that that's definitely something that they didn't have in mind when they drafted the bill.

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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2009, 02:08 PM
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I have issues with it because he's already outspent every president combined up until now. If you're trying to make cuts to survive, how can you spend money you don't have? Also, why is gov't growing at such an astronomical rate? That isn't just Obama, it also goes with Bush as well.

For me, you can't have an "optional" choice when you're going to fine people who don't carry insurance. That's forcing it upon someone. I don't have health insurance. Nor, can I get on a private policy due to pre-existing conditions and having policies rescinded on me. I would rather take the money which uselessly goes to insurance premiums and put into a bank account. Where is it in my best interest to force me to pay $3800 per year (or more if I have insurance) when I spend about $1000/year on medical expenses? If it's going to be a true "option" then we should also have the option to opt out of anything.

I agree with you though about the For-profit business model. many people are falling into the fear brought on by the insurance companies.

There's countless other things wrong with this administration as well as this cycle of congress.
I'd think the public system wouldn't be able to deny you coverage, which is one of the many reasons I think it's a great thing. Your rates should also be quite a bit lower then private, since the plan is only trying to break even, not make money.

In Canada, the government can't deny someone coverage, it's automatic. The US system being proposed isn't anywhere near as government run as the CDN system though. I think it's a much better system when procedures are covered/not covered, not people being covered/not covered.


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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2009, 03:04 PM
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you're right Fjorn, it's not an option and you're getting shafted. Have you written to anybody about your circumstances? I'm pretty sure that that's definitely something that they didn't have in mind when they drafted the bill.
I've talked to numerous people in the state gov't as well as advocacy groups. Most take the "Oh, that's too bad but don't worry, we'll get you covered" stance.

I really need to sit down and write a letter to Fed level representatives and possibly to a talk show host or two see what I can drum up.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2009, 03:07 PM
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yea definitely. It'd be nice to be covered, but in your circumstances, it sure shouldn't cost 3x what it's expected to. I could see a 20-30% increase for like... incase you break a leg on the bike or whatever, but not 300%

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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2009, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenEnvy View Post
Meh, I think he's doing a good job. He inherited a horrible recession, and is getting the country through it. He wants to help citizens who can't afford the crazy prices for health insurance. I really don't understand all the fear of having some sort of public health care option available. He's not even talking about a full system like Canada has, just an option from the government. I think a vast majority of people in the US that are against this don't even know what it's all about. They hear the republicans screaming stupid things like death squads or other baseless garbage, and take it as fact. I know the democrats do very shady shit too when they are not in power, it's a endless cycle of just putting down the other side even when they have good ideas.

I don't know why Americans think it's OK for a FOR-PROFIT company to be deciding if you should be covered for something or not. it's in their best interest to deny you and jack your rates up at every opportunity. A non-profit system is needed for health care. Non profits charge only enough to break even.

I don't like other things that have been done on his watch, like the "buy american" provisions. Those make voters feel good, but in the long term they hurt you far more as other countries react in kind and you have no where to export your goods. Protectionism rarely does anything good.
i just dont like him
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2009, 03:14 PM
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i just dont like him
that's cool. Lots of folks didn't like the last guy. Or the one before him, or the one before him.

I think Reagan was fairly well liked, atleast I liked him but I was just a toddler and he was a grandfatherly figure, maybe it just seemed that way.

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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2009, 03:16 PM
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I'd think the public system wouldn't be able to deny you coverage, which is one of the many reasons I think it's a great thing. Your rates should also be quite a bit lower then private, since the plan is only trying to break even, not make money.
Here's some info for you on a couple state run options (not Fed level, state level):

1) If my income is low enough, I can get in on state sponsored health insurance plan. My wife and I were on this years ago. However, we broke the income limit on our second year and had to go without insurance. We made too much for this, but not enough for private insurance. The companies we worked for weren't large enough to offer insurance at reasonable rates.

2) Due to my health conditions and having policies rescinded, I'm eligible for a state run comprehensive plan. This is non-profit and is a "no turn down" policy. According to the info, there's approximately 30,000 people on this plan. Sounds good doesn't it?

The unfortunate part about this "non-profit" is that they offer a policy that doesn't cover as much as the private policies I had for about 1.25-1.5 times the cost of the private policies. Back when I was looking at this, just my insurance alone would have cost $225/month for a high deductible plan that has a $2750 deductible. this means that I'd have to pay for every medical procedure up to the $2750 limit before my insurance kicks in. this is in addition to the monthly premiums I'd have to make.

Just because something is non-profit doesn't mean it's going to be cheaper.

Quote:
In Canada, the government can't deny someone coverage, it's automatic. The US system being proposed isn't anywhere near as government run as the CDN system though. I think it's a much better system when procedures are covered/not covered, not people being covered/not covered.
When it's a procedural basis of coverage, ther's problems there as well. Both of the profit, and not for profit, insurance sectors will deny extensively anything they possibly can because they know how expensive medical is.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2009, 03:33 PM
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yea definitely. It'd be nice to be covered, but in your circumstances, it sure shouldn't cost 3x what it's expected to. I could see a 20-30% increase for like... incase you break a leg on the bike or whatever, but not 300%
I'm active, watch the diet, and am dropping weight. But, I do have medical conditions so I could see "some" price increases. I was on an elevated premium due to size/weight from all the heavy lifting I did which resulted in putting all kinds of mass on. I don't have an issue with that at all.

My issue is that when premiums (or the penalty) are more than your annual medical expenses, I see no benefit. sure, insurance is for the "what if" scenarios. But, like you said, if it's three times your annual amount, it's not justified.

If the numbers I'm hearing are correct, this new health initiative is saying that if you don't have health coverage, they're going to fine you $3700 a year per person. For my family of three, that would be $11,100 per year. On average, we spend less than $4,000 a year on medical stuff (OTC and prescription drugs, Dr's visits, etc). I'd much rather see that $7,100 go into my son's college fund and our retirement fund after we made a healthy deposit into our savings account to cover unexpected expenses.
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2009, 03:45 PM
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and you're saying the public insurance is gonna be in the range of $3800/year for the whole family? or per person?

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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2009, 03:53 PM
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I haven't seen numbers yet for the public option premium. Only their proposed penalties of $3700 per person if you don't buy coverage.

I don't have exact numbers on what we pay currently. But, for my wife and son, I think we're paying close to $500/month for a high deductible plan like I mentioned is available in the second state offered plan.

Two years ago, we were paying about $380 for all three of us with the same coverage. The $225 is what it would have cost two years ago when my insurance policy was rescinded. Not sure what it would cost now.

Last edited by fjorn; 09-16-2009 at 03:53 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2009, 06:43 PM
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no one would even know who k west guy was if he didnt say and do stupid stunts at awards shows.
I wish him dead , but thats just me. lol

why cant the president say he is a jackass. . I agree its the first thing obama got right.

as for health care..... my point is and always will be the government can't balance a checkbook how the hell could it be expected to run health care S.S. is in the drink with MM ..
we are only like 9trillion in debt (several trillion unaccounted for)

I agree with Green envy the health care system they are pushing is sounding better than most socialized systems around the world, but It is not what our country is about .
I want to be free to choose and not be forced to pay for my dumbass neighbors medical bills. actually Its not just his medical bills its paying the middle man(the government) to barter the deal against my will.

iirc like 80% of the major medical advances have come from the US .
I have a mri machine in my town of 15,000 . at the hospital.
any chance you can get into a mri tonight in Canada. I can get my daughter in right now .
I know people who have had to drive out of Canada into the USA to get a procedure done, it happens thousands of times a day . almost never the other direction though.
obama is a liar and an admitted marxist I only trust he will change the scale of things once he gets his foot in the door with this soft version of socialized health care.

just my opinion I don't strongly disagree with what my Canadian neighbors have said only wanted to make a counterpoint.

David
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2009, 06:51 PM
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I want to be free to choose and not be forced to pay for my dumbass neighbors medical bills.
exactly. or for those females who have 5 kids by different dads. why should i pay for those kids
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 09-16-2009, 06:54 PM
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If I needed to get into an MRI tonight I could. But I'm fortunate enough to live in a city of 400,000 with 3 major hospitals and a university hospital where a lot of the MRI development work was done, they've been available here since the late 70's.

I also wouldn't have to pay a dime for it.

But that's not the point, that's not the system you guys are being offered.

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