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post #1 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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Hayden's fall from grace began today.

If our boy from Ky can't pull off some good results and stay infront of micro Dani then he's done in MOTO GP I think.


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post #2 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 01:24 PM
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naw....bet he goes to a satellite honda team.

season hasn't started yet....give him a chance.

hey....there's always laguna!


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post #3 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firehawk
naw....bet he goes to a satellite honda team.

season hasn't started yet....give him a chance.

hey....there's always laguna!
I want him to succeed, But I'm just saying that if Dani Pulls off a better season than him it'll be over. Plus if he can't get it done at Repsol Honda then I think his chances of success at a satellite team are very limited.


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post #4 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 01:32 PM
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if Barros got canned, Nick can also get canned, he'd better pull something out and fast.
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post #5 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 02:30 PM
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he can always come back and chalenge Mladin!ped

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post #6 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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he can always come back and chalenge Mladin!ped
Ya, but then Mladin would be able face him and say "i told you so."


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post #7 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 02:53 PM
 
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Don't worry, Dani will be spending parts of the season getting to know the gravel traps.
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post #8 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 02:58 PM
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face up to it

if you were a team owner spending millions of $ a year and your driver/rider was on the start of his 4th season with only a home win how would you feel..........................honestly

if he doesn't pull it off this season he's out
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post #9 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 03:14 PM
 
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Hayden finished 3rd in points last season, that's something. There's a lot of money making exposure around him as well. I don't think it's so bad for him. IMO.
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post #10 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 03:25 PM
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i don't understand why people give him such a hard time....a harder time than say hopkins or edwards. edwards is on a factory team as well....with the world champ.....and isn't finishing top three. hayden got a win and numerous podiums last year...how many times did colin or hopkins even get on the box? yea, so what nicky is with repsol....obiously, max biaggi couldn't make much of it, nor barros the year before. nicky is still finishing better than old heroes of the series, who keep getting pats on the back and awarded with good rides for crappy standings. then guys in chat rooms and forums talk about how he's done, washed up, losing his ride, ect. i don't get it. why aren't people stoked for the guy when he's finishing better than 16 other dudes and is the top american in the series?

go nicky.


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post #11 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 03:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by firehawk
i don't understand why people give him such a hard time....a harder time than say hopkins or edwards. edwards is on a factory team as well....with the world champ.....and isn't finishing top three. hayden got a win and numerous podiums last year...how many times did colin or hopkins even get on the box? yea, so what nicky is with repsol....obiously, max biaggi couldn't make much of it, nor barros the year before. nicky is still finishing better than old heroes of the series, who keep getting pats on the back and awarded with good rides for crappy standings. then guys in chat rooms and forums talk about how he's done, washed up, losing his ride, ect. i don't get it. why aren't people stoked for the guy when he's finishing better than 16 other dudes and is the top american in the series?

go nicky.
:imwst

Give Nicky a break, he's doing fine. No, he's doing great compared to many if not most big name riders.

It seems that a lot of people have put Nicky in a box where he can't win regardless if he actually wins or not. And that's BAD FORM dudes. I've never seen Americans this hesitant of supporting one of their own, when that someone hasn't done anything wrong, where the hell are the U.S.A U.S.A U.S.A chants? I'd never would have thought I would miss it. :laugh (no offense intended)

Go Nicky! Here's some international support at least.

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post #12 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 04:17 PM
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Nicky is one of the most talented riders out there. The Honda RC211V has not been developed properly the last TWO years. That's a long time people. Don't give Nicky shit, he rides the wheels off that bike and always does so with a good attitude. USA! USA! USA!
post #13 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 04:39 PM
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The Honda RC211V has not been developed properly the last TWO years.
didn't bother gibernau any, Melandri seems to be doing ok on it.

He was partnered with Rossi, and how'd he do when that was the case? 5th place in the championship, not bad, until you see the gap between him and 4th, and how hot on his tail Bayliss and Checa where, then consider that his teammate won the championship and brought home almost triple the points he did.

Then Valentino moves to yamaha and Hayden is teamed by a contract breaking Barros (who now has no ride, despite having won the same number of races this year as hayden and generally being one of the hardest fighters out there, like Duhammel or Haga) Barros finishes the season in 4th place with 165 pts, Hayden? 8th place with 117. well atleast he didn't get doubled this year right? Still I think it's safe to say he got stomped... and hard.

2005: yay, the breakthru year, where he wins at the home track basicly due to a good holeshot, didn't have to actually race against anybody. Takes a podium at Phillip island by taking McWilliam's line thru siberia and using that to attack Marco (this was actually a very impressive performance, funny how it came right at contract time?) and taking advantage of Valentino's lack of a Q lap at valencia to get away while Vale tries to give chase on fried rubber and minimal fuel, yay, he got away, BFD.

4 years on the most coveted bike in the paddock, and every year he has been beaten by a teammate that got evicted.... Ya I'd say that makes me raise an eyebrow.

Why do I cut Hopkins a break? because he routinely kicks the crap out of his teammate by 3 seconds a lap... that's why, and the teammate I'm talking about is a former world champion and one of the best developement riders in the paddock.

Why don't I pick on Roberts? 1. His dad is god. 2. he beat the piss out of a 500 and took it to a world championship. 3. He has BEATEN Valentino in a championship race, and he's the only one ever to have done that... sure he hasn't achieved anything lately, but he's achieved enough in his career, I'd keep handing him rides on a bike that costs 1/10th what nick's does until the 2010 season if he wants them. Also a note for Roberts.... he's riding for his dad for free, and kicking ass.

Why do I support Colin when he's never beaten his teammates or put up a very impressive show? Colin has been teamed with some of the best riders of the time. He's beaten Haga on equal equipment. He is continuosly striving to make the bike better, and to make his reputation by kicking ass and taking names on the track.... not by abusing his "young blood" priviledges, partying, making the girls googoo-eyed, playing dating games on daytime television, and going on late-night TV with his brothers.

IMO, his 2 brothers would be better suited to the ride, I think they'd take it more seriosly, and not for granted.

Sure, nick's an AMA SBK champion, sure... he beat Mladin. but lets face it, that year he was on a 1000 while Mladin had a 750, the rules regarding camshafts and port angle changes between the 1000's and the 750's where completely different, he had a lighter, more powerfull, torquier, and more tractible bike, and still Mladin gave him a run. Cheers, you beat the best, wanna try it again? I thought not.
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post #14 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 06:22 PM
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didn't bother gibernau any, Melandri seems to be doing ok on it.

He was partnered with Rossi, and how'd he do when that was the case? 5th place in the championship, not bad, until you see the gap between him and 4th, and how hot on his tail Bayliss and Checa where, then consider that his teammate won the championship and brought home almost triple the points he did.

Then Valentino moves to yamaha and Hayden is teamed by a contract breaking Barros (who now has no ride, despite having won the same number of races this year as hayden and generally being one of the hardest fighters out there, like Duhammel or Haga) Barros finishes the season in 4th place with 165 pts, Hayden? 8th place with 117. well atleast he didn't get doubled this year right? Still I think it's safe to say he got stomped... and hard.

2005: yay, the breakthru year, where he wins at the home track basicly due to a good holeshot, didn't have to actually race against anybody. Takes a podium at Phillip island by taking McWilliam's line thru siberia and using that to attack Marco (this was actually a very impressive performance, funny how it came right at contract time?) and taking advantage of Valentino's lack of a Q lap at valencia to get away while Vale tries to give chase on fried rubber and minimal fuel, yay, he got away, BFD.

4 years on the most coveted bike in the paddock, and every year he has been beaten by a teammate that got evicted.... Ya I'd say that makes me raise an eyebrow.

Why do I cut Hopkins a break? because he routinely kicks the crap out of his teammate by 3 seconds a lap... that's why, and the teammate I'm talking about is a former world champion and one of the best developement riders in the paddock.

Why don't I pick on Roberts? 1. His dad is god. 2. he beat the piss out of a 500 and took it to a world championship. 3. He has BEATEN Valentino in a championship race, and he's the only one ever to have done that... sure he hasn't achieved anything lately, but he's achieved enough in his career, I'd keep handing him rides on a bike that costs 1/10th what nick's does until the 2010 season if he wants them. Also a note for Roberts.... he's riding for his dad for free, and kicking ass.

Why do I support Colin when he's never beaten his teammates or put up a very impressive show? Colin has been teamed with some of the best riders of the time. He's beaten Haga on equal equipment. He is continuosly striving to make the bike better, and to make his reputation by kicking ass and taking names on the track.... not by abusing his "young blood" priviledges, partying, making the girls googoo-eyed, playing dating games on daytime television, and going on late-night TV with his brothers.

IMO, his 2 brothers would be better suited to the ride, I think they'd take it more seriosly, and not for granted.

Sure, nick's an AMA SBK champion, sure... he beat Mladin. but lets face it, that year he was on a 1000 while Mladin had a 750, the rules regarding camshafts and port angle changes between the 1000's and the 750's where completely different, he had a lighter, more powerfull, torquier, and more tractible bike, and still Mladin gave him a run. Cheers, you beat the best, wanna try it again? I thought not.

Wow. Easy for you to say. Look, I don't think we are in such good position to say that Nicky is taking this thing for granted. To path to MotoGP and the level of competition in the series is beyond all of us could ever imagine that just to belong in that group tells something about who they are. You don't get there by taking things for granted, but this thing we know for sure, you get there by working hard and giving it all you've got. You make it sound like his win in Laguna was easy and nothing special. He was clearly much faster than the rest of the field, including Colin, that's why he wasn't racing anybody. Before we decide that he's done in MotoGP or done riding a factory bike, let's give him a chance to prove himself this year. This is the year where I actually expect him to be on par with his teammate. I never expected him to beat Rossi, Barros, or Biaggi. The first race of the season didn't even start yet, and here we are saying he's done. Instead of supporting the guy, were here trying to put him down just because he's not there on the top of the timesheets on free practice day. What is that? Let's at least wait when the race is over. He is now the leader of the Repsol squad for the time being, and because he's new at this, there will be times when he's lost and going in the wrong direction. We should be supporting the guy. That's all. Your post sounded like you're biased against Nicky and that every accomplishments he achieved you managed to downplay it and put an excuse to it. In AMA and in MotoGP where the level of competition is way up there, achieving something is very special.
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post #15 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 06:45 PM
 
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I'm with firehawk on this one ...

BUT... Repsol team don't care about 2nd and 3rd or podium finish .. what they're looking for is a champion ship .. and they're doing what ever it takes to get it ..
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post #16 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 06:53 PM
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wtf... nicky finished 3rd in the championship last year, that means over the coarse of the year he was the 3rd best rider in the world and one of those guys is the greatest of all time. He has been strugling with traction on the new bike, for sure but hell get it figuired out.

doesnt take it seriously, are you kidding me, did you see his lap totals in the test there were days he did 110+ laps , he worked his but off trying to make the bike better

I guess you could argue this stuff all day, but i will support Nicky no matter what, he is an awsome guy and an awsome rider

go nicky, colin, john, and kenny

USA USA USA USA


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post #17 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 09:16 PM
 
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Firehawk hit the nail on the head with that post... Nicky has been on the factory team for 4 years, 4 years on the best bike in the field... yeah, that's reason enough to critisize him..
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post #18 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-24-2006, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by small-g
Easy for you to say. Look, I don't think we are in such good position to say that Nicky is taking this thing for granted.
Fair enough, he's a way better rider than I will ever be, anyone on any of those bikes are.

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You make it sound like his win in Laguna was easy and nothing special. He was clearly much faster than the rest of the field, including Colin.
lets look at the lap chart.

Lap 1: he's got a 3.0 second lead on colin, thanks mostly to a fantastic holeshot (something I give nick ALOT of credit for, he has an incredible knack for getting the bike off the line)

lap 2: Colin has moved from 6th to 5th, passing Gibernau and losing only 0.2s off of Nick while doing so

Lap3: Colin is caught behind max, losing a further 0.2s, putting him almost 3.5s back now.

Lap4: Colin loses 0.4 more seconds on nicky getting past Max and

Lap5: it's on, colin makes back 0.4

Lap10: (this is the gap where nick shows what he's got and maintains edwards pace)

lap 15: Edwards has caught valentino and is being held up.

Lap 20: Edwards has passed Rossi, made up another 0.4s on nick.

Lap 25: Edwards has pulled in another 0.2

Lap 30: Colin runs out of rubber, Nick pulls away, not having had to fight thru the pack, has enough rubber left to pull out 0.3 on colin, bringing the gab back to what it was at lap20.

lap 32: Hayden for the win, final gap? 1.9s, with colin pulling in 0.8s in a final push as Haydens tires fade.

ya... nick one, cheers and kudo's to him for that, I honestly give him credit for good race-craft and knowing how to launch a bike. Was he the more impressive of the 2? in my opinion no, but he came out on top, and therefor the credit is his, and he deserves it, I can sit and say whoever was faster until I'm blue in the face, but Nick crossed first. That's racing.


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Before we decide that he's done in MotoGP or done riding a factory bike, let's give him a chance to prove himself this year.
How many chances has he had? how many does he get? seems like he as #2 rider gets alot more chances than his teammates doesn't it?


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Your post sounded like you're biased against Nicky and that every accomplishments he achieved you managed to downplay it and put an excuse to it. In AMA and in MotoGP where the level of competition is way up there, achieving something is very special.
I am blasting him. Level of competition is high yes, he's a much better rider than me.. yes, is he on the level with the others? he's good, but he's not that good.

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wtf... nicky finished 3rd in the championship last year, that means over the coarse of the year he was the 3rd best rider in the world and one of those guys is the greatest of all time.
he finished 3rd yes, but who was it that got invited to not come back by honda right near the end there? somebody who maybe could have fucked with that? Rossi the greatest of all time? please, he's comparable, but to outright say "rossi is the best of all time?" what has he done that Giacomo didnt do?
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post #19 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-25-2006, 12:19 AM
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just throwin it back atcha bro....

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didn't bother gibernau any, Melandri seems to be doing ok on it.
true, but so is nicky. i seem to recall nicky finishing better than giberhoe last year. i also recall nicky going into valencia with a good chance of snatching 2nd in the championship. was an even points race between him and melandri up to that point. i wouldn't say that proves that melandri is THAT much better....

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Originally Posted by junior
He was partnered with Rossi, and how'd he do when that was the case? 5th place in the championship, not bad, until you see the gap between him and 4th, and how hot on his tail Bayliss and Checa where, then consider that his teammate won the championship and brought home almost triple the points he did.
his ROOKIE year he finished 5th in points? you call that BAD? and yea....his teammate was ROSSI. who ELSE on the grid has beaten him for #1 in the last 5 years? nicky raced his first race overseas against the elite of motogp. bayliss had ridden several of those same tracks for years, and i don't even need to explain Checa. nicky camein cold and scored a 5th. i call that a monumental accomplishment.

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Originally Posted by junior
Then Valentino moves to yamaha and Hayden is teamed by a contract breaking Barros (who now has no ride, despite having won the same number of races this year as hayden and generally being one of the hardest fighters out there, like Duhammel or Haga) Barros finishes the season in 4th place with 165 pts, Hayden? 8th place with 117. well atleast he didn't get doubled this year right? Still I think it's safe to say he got stomped... and hard.
yes, he stumbled. there's only one #1. when there's 20 guys fighting for the top spot, only ONE is going to be up there. you stumble a few times, and you're down hard in points. honda brought nicky over because he's young and has potential. they want results NOW. barros didn't deliver, but he's been around the paddock. honda is still hoping nicky gets up there. i agree both he and repsol needs results, but they also have faith in him.

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Originally Posted by junior
2005: yay, the breakthru year, where he wins at the home track basicly due to a good holeshot, didn't have to actually race against anybody. Takes a podium at Phillip island by taking McWilliam's line thru siberia and using that to attack Marco (this was actually a very impressive performance, funny how it came right at contract time?) and taking advantage of Valentino's lack of a Q lap at valencia to get away while Vale tries to give chase on fried rubber and minimal fuel, yay, he got away, BFD.
didn't have to race against anybody because he pulled a holeshot. ummm.....isn't that what you're SUPPOSED to do? dammit nicky! quit pulling holeshots and go wheel to wheel with vale! GOOD on nicky for running away with it. you can claim home field advantage ALL you want to, but bayliss, hopkins and edwards ALL ran races on that surface, and did not win. as for PI, nicky has always been fast there. he podium'd because he's fast as hell. vale was faster. so far, vale has been faster than EVERYONE else for the last 5 years. nicky ran a great race that day, and just got beat by the master. at valencia....vale sucked in qualifying. call a spade a spade. he fried his rubber trying to catch up because he sucked in qualifying. that's nicky's fault?! next you'll say the only reason marco won was because vale smoked his rubber off trying to get to the front. vale is only human, and DOES make mistakes. other people benefit.

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Originally Posted by junior
4 years on the most coveted bike in the paddock, and every year he has been beaten by a teammate that got evicted.... Ya I'd say that makes me raise an eyebrow.
where's max?

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Originally Posted by junior
Why do I cut Hopkins a break? because he routinely kicks the crap out of his teammate by 3 seconds a lap... that's why, and the teammate I'm talking about is a former world champion and one of the best developement riders in the paddock.
3 seconds a lap over your teammate ain't shit when you're 4 seconds a lap behind the leaders. you're not going to call hopper a moron for sticking it out on a bike that scrubs off his true potential with every corner? hopper hasn't finished top FIVE in standings since he's been in GP. i really don't think 3 seconds a lap means much.....

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Originally Posted by junior
Why don't I pick on Roberts? 1. His dad is god. 2. he beat the piss out of a 500 and took it to a world championship. 3. He has BEATEN Valentino in a championship race, and he's the only one ever to have done that... sure he hasn't achieved anything lately, but he's achieved enough in his career, I'd keep handing him rides on a bike that costs 1/10th what nick's does until the 2010 season if he wants them. Also a note for Roberts.... he's riding for his dad for free, and kicking ass.
when he beat valentino, what bikes were they riding? how long ago was that? has he beat vale in the last 5 years? i have respect for JR, but the writing was on the wall LONG ago for him. he had a glorious year, and hasn't been a factor since. why doesn't this thread say 'JR's fall from grace'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior
Why do I support Colin when he's never beaten his teammates or put up a very impressive show? Colin has been teamed with some of the best riders of the time. He's beaten Haga on equal equipment. He is continuosly striving to make the bike better, and to make his reputation by kicking ass and taking names on the track.... not by abusing his "young blood" priviledges, partying, making the girls googoo-eyed, playing dating games on daytime television, and going on late-night TV with his brothers.
alright bro....this paragraph is where you're really starting to show blind hatred for nicky. colin beat people in WSBK. he hasn't done CRAP in GP. nicky is doing BETTER than colin in GP. nicky never raced WSBK. bayliss won WSBK races, but did so bad in the GP's that he went back to WSBK. all of the sudden he's a hero for winning races again. i truly believe nicky is taking this rde VERY seriously. maybe that's the reason repsol IS holding onto him. he's got a strong work ethic, tries and fights hard, and runs at/near the front on raceday. nicky went on ONE freakin TV show.....tell me how much vale is out there screwing around doing the same crap. he does MORE of it! just seems like you've got a real grudge against the lad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior
IMO, his 2 brothers would be better suited to the ride, I think they'd take it more seriosly, and not for granted.
speaking of party boys....THESE two are the half of the family that does that. i respect you junior, but you CAN'T tell me that tommy would be more suited for that ride!!! you're nuts! what has tommy done to deserve THAT kind of accolade! neither of those boys can hold a candle to the talent nicky has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junior
Sure, nick's an AMA SBK champion, sure... he beat Mladin. but lets face it, that year he was on a 1000 while Mladin had a 750, the rules regarding camshafts and port angle changes between the 1000's and the 750's where completely different, he had a lighter, more powerfull, torquier, and more tractible bike, and still Mladin gave him a run. Cheers, you beat the best, wanna try it again? I thought not.
jesus bro. now nicky won because he was on a 'better' bike. the boy has loads of talent. admit it. he beat mladin because he has talent. period. i see no asterisks in the SBK standings that year, saying nicky won because he was on a better bike or cheated.

nicky is an incredible talent, capable of capturing 3rd in a world racing series behind GOD and a guy that he went into the last race damn near tied in points with. there's only so may spots at the top, junior. as long as vale is out there, i know that one will be occupied. the fight is for second, and nicky damn near got it.


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post #20 of 240 (permalink) Old 03-25-2006, 12:58 AM
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hmmmm, I dunno man, maybe I do just have blind hatred for Nick, god knows it's possible, I am canadian after all and can therefor NEVER EVER cheer for the guy that has all the odds going in his favour.

better bike in 2002, I think the 51 was pretty much regarded as superior equipment to the gixxer750 wasn't it? I wasn't watching AMA at the time, but I know they cleaned house in the CMA.

and ya, I think Hopper is a moron for not taking a ride that can showcase his skills, IF I have a blind hate for Nick, Hopper is the reason, it's my opinion that hopper has way more talent, but will never be regarded in equal light because Nick is the "golden child of america" that has the way before him paved with frankenscence, mirr, and factory rides, while hopper gets stuck on nail after nail, but happily rides the bloody wheels off them.

With regards to Hopper beating Roberts by 3 seconds.. to me that is a big deal, I think the ONLY person in the paddock that you can compare a rider to is there teammate, they're the only ones that are running close to the same machinery, beyond that you can always say "O the bike was better, the rubber was worse, etc, etc, etc, but when 2 guys are teammates there SHOULD be a #1 rider that's abit ahead, but there shouldn't be much desparity, certainly not that much in favour of the "second" rider.

with regards to the Laguna holeshot, I give him absolute credit, the whole race I was thinking to myself "this is like that year Rainey was on the Dunlops, run away with an early lead and don't let them touch you." it was a great example of racing with your head, and winning thru racecraft, not all out skill (something that I'm not ashamed to say Rainey did ALOT of, and he's my all time favourite)

Kenny Jr... ya, maybe he has fallen from grace, or maybe not, in preseason testing we've seen him do alot with very little, which is basicly my beef with Nick only backwards, I just think that when he was given so much, he should have come good on it long before now.


O, the biaggi thing, Until biaggi was basicly evicted from HRC (sepang was his last race?) He was ahead of Nick in the standings. True, racing is racing, max didn't finish the season and nick had 4 more races to score points in to bring himself ahead, but again, that's not really a way to win a points race, I mean it works ya forsure, but don't count on repeating it this year yaknow?

ya, his rookie year he finished 5th, that's great, but look how many points he scored, vs how many his teammate (remember what I was saying about that being the only person you can compare to?) Valentino nearly tripled nick's score. Albeit yes, Rossi is the best thing going now, then probably until he gets bored and wanders off to WRC, or beach volleyball, or partying naked in tahiti, whatever tickles his fancy. But jesus man, 3x? that's rediculous!

that said, Valentino more than tripled Colins points this season, so maybe it's time Colin is called out to pasture aswell.

it strikes me that there's a ton of emphasis on young and small riders these days. is that justified? lets recap race winners this season. Rossi (27) Barros (36), Capirossi (33), Hayden(25) and Melandri (24). Honestly this shows more of a trend to the young guns than I would have expected, but in the past (ya ya, the 500 days that where o so different) it was pretty unusual for guys under 30 to be bagging championships.

I think he's got skill, and I'm glad to see a slider still up and running at the front, but if I where an HRC boss, he'd be long since gone at the very least to a satellite team.

w/ regard to his brothers, I honestly don't follow them that close, I'm jsut going by the few interviews that I have read, and Rogers column on soup.

I didn't mean to stir the pot this bad, but I seriosly think the kid is not on the level for this sport. I would send him to WSBK if I was running the show, or back to AMA to see if he can best Mladin a second time.
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