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View Poll Results: Do you miss the 500cc strokers?
No, they are obsolete and you are just an old fart whining about the good ole days 10 45.45%
Yes, bring back the real racers! 12 54.55%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 12:00 PM Thread Starter
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Do you miss 500cc racing?

So MotoGP is going to 800cc right? What are the chances they end up at 750cc somewhere down the line? Hello non-production based WSB!!!

I dunno, the fact that they were strokers made them seem more exotic.

I guess if the 500cc strokers were faster more teams would still be using them. They are still legal right?
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post #2 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 12:11 PM
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Don't think the 500 are legal.

Rumors have it that only satellite teams will be able to run 990 next year with restrictor plates to keep cost down for them.

Only Junior misses the 500.


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post #3 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 12:25 PM
 
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Only Junior misses the 500.
:imwst
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post #4 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 12:43 PM
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i think rossi misses the 500's also he still gets a twinkle in the eye when he talks about them


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post #5 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 01:00 PM
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That could be cause he won the last 500 Championship, but I somehow doubt that he would want to race 500 again.


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i think rossi misses the 500's also he still gets a twinkle in the eye when he talks about them


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post #6 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 01:22 PM
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It's the past........ let's look into the future.

It was the competition from that erea, not the actual bikes themselves.

This last few years we have had better closer racing imo, and that's what makes racing fun.



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post #7 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 02:07 PM
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You should talk, you are the one that rides a Harley.


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It's the past........ let's look into the future.



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post #8 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 02:09 PM
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lol, you bastid



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post #9 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 03:26 PM
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his superior skills would show more on the 500, and he knows it,
no rookies coming up fighting for the championship





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That could be cause he won the last 500 Championship, but I somehow doubt that he would want to race 500 again.


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post #10 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 04:08 PM
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I think the new 800 bikes will be like the 500 in some ways. Lighter, higher revving, and more difficult to ride like the 500 were.

Will be interesting to watch for sure. :corn


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his superior skills would show more on the 500, and he knows it,
no rookies coming up fighting for the championship


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post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 04:23 PM
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The 500's rocked! Granted there down on power now compared to the bigger 4 strokes. Took them quite some time to get 4 strokes close to the same power level as a two stroke motor. Was kinda nice seeing the two racing together, looked like the 500's handled better for sure.
But IMO, They should have kept the 500cc class limit. Then we would still be watching two strokes in all three(500/250/125).....:corn
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post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 04:36 PM
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Think your the 990 were more powerfull then the 500 right from the start.


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Took them quite some time to get 4 strokes close to the same power level as a two stroke motor.500


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post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
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Think your the 990 were more powerfull then the 500 right from the start.
That's why they should have kept a 500cc limit!
Then bring on you four stroke 500 against the two stroke's. Yeah, I didnt think so:
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post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 05:06 PM
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I would if Yamaha would sell me an M1.

Honda was the one that pushed the four strokes, and only after Kato's death did the FIM change the rules to 800 for 2007.


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Originally Posted by MotoGPracing View Post
That's why they should have kept a 500cc limit!
Then bring on you four stroke 500 against the two stroke's. Yeah, I didnt think so:


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post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 05:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Honda was the one that pushed the four strokes, and only after Kato's death did the FIM change the rules to 800 for 2007.
Honda also pushed for the 800cc change (I think). Honda has the R&D juggernaut. They always have the advantage when there is a major rule change.
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post #16 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 05:45 PM
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its called money, and the willingness to spend huge sums to win,


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post #17 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 06:07 PM
 
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I voted for the ring-dings. Their time is done, we will not see them again but there just is something cool about the 2 strokes that the 4 strokes don't have. As someone mentioned, they seemed more exotic, they were more difficult to ride and they were a world apart from the WSBK, which current prototypes, even though very different from the current batch of superbikes, seem to emulate.
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post #18 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 06:08 PM
 
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its called money, and the willingness to spend huge sums to win,
Being a Yamaha guy, it hurts to admit this but that strategy has been successful for Honda in the past and is proving true this year as well (to some extent).
I see 500's as being a much more "violent" machine with the riders having to work their tails off while racing them and in that respect it was better, but in the end I'll take legitimate progression anyday.
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post #19 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-16-2006, 10:42 PM
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well we ALL know how I was gonna answer this one

btw, I'm back from my hiatus, hi everyone, missed you guys.

yea, I miss the 500s, and no, it wasn't just the competition that I missed, it was the "feel" of the bikes, you watched the 500's and you KNEW that the bike was absolutly evil, all that it wants to do is kill you. The other beauty of them tho is that ANYONE on the grid can win on a 500 if he hangs his balls out and gets lucky that day. some guys where faster than others, but with the 4-strokes, you can more or less pick 3 maybe 4 guys as possible race winners, and 95-99% of the time you'll be bang on correct. With the 500's, you pick 3 or 4 guys, and you'll be correct MAYBE 60% of the time. Would we see Norick Abe winning races on a second string satellite yamaha 990? 'cause we DID see him do that on a 2-stroke. How about Alex Barros being a title contender on trashola machinery? (ok, actually we saw that in 2002, and so did honda, hence givin him an RC211V for the last 4 races, where he won 2 and got second twice, scored more points than Valentino.)

I dunno, I'm a 2-stroke lover, and I always will be, but honestly even the 250's are pretty goddamned brutal these days. Ultimatly tho, I find myself asking the question "is it the motors? or is it the electronics that make the racing so crummy" and time and time again I keep coming up with it being the traction control. I imagine that if you fitted modern traction control and modern tires to even an old 2002 500, it wouldn't be that far from being competative. When the 990's first where being tested, even the hardest of the 500 tires couldn't last 5 laps under the abuse the 990's where dishing them. meaning basicly, the 500's could run half race distance on a damned qualifier (oversimplification yea, but it gets the point across in dramatic style)


MotoGPracing: amen brother, bring back the eual displacement rules (like it was since the beginning of time) and we'll see how the 4-strokes do. I have an idea tho, you wanna see some REAL ass kicking and really fast bikes, lets bring in 800cc 2-strokes. Watch the privateers roll out the 6 and 8 cylinder bikes making 350hp

another point is that back in the 50 days, a fully set-up race bike for a season for a privateer, you where into about $100k, so say $300k on the top end for a privateer team for 2 bikes and spares for a season for a rider. (this is assuming he's a real crasher, the spare kits that the manufacturers dish out with privateer bikes are Very generous) Now snap forward to modern motoGP bikes... these things make F1 cars look cheap, whereas in the past it was possible to be very competative with $10 million for a season (which there was tons of tobacco companies dieing to cough up) Now Sito Pons, a guy with nearly 10 years running a team, who has been a title contender in the past, can't keep a team rolling for less than 50 million, WCM who where title contenders as recently as 2000, running on a 5 million budget at the time, are running on a 30 million dollar budget and are lapped at nearly every race, superbikes are lapping faster.

are they faster now than they where before? absolutly.

are they easier to ride? definatly

can a good rider on a shitty bike still win races? no.....

want evidence?

Sete Gibernau, suzuki in 2002, fighting like a motherfucker to make the top 10. switches to Honda for 2003, wins many races and is a title contender.

Kenny Roberts Jr, former world champion on the 500's (anyone who says he doesn't have skills, he won a championship on the 500's and won 4 o 5 races that year, like a 30% win rate for that season, not bad at all) Honda motors this year in a bike that was on almost exactly the same level as his suzuki. he goes from fighting for 15th and 16th place to multiple podiums and finishing with the lead group.

you can argue that Rossi went to yamaha and won, that the yamaha was a bad bike. but was it really? Biaggi was winning races and podiuming on it, it wasn't the best bike, it still isn't, but it was on the same level. Could Rossi do it on a suzuki or a kawasaki? I'm gonna have to go with no... noone could.

anyways, sorry to write a novel, but take it for what it's worth, I was born breathing 2-stroke smoke and have been living it and loving it every day since then.

HAIL TO THE KING!!

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post #20 of 44 (permalink) Old 08-17-2006, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior View Post

btw, I'm back from my hiatus, hi everyone, missed you guys.


are they faster now than they where before? absolutely.

are they easier to ride? definitely

can a good rider on a shitty bike still win races? no.....

want evidence?

Sete Gibernau, suzuki in 2002, fighting like a motherfucker to make the top 10. switches to Honda for 2003, wins many races and is a title contender.


you can argue that Rossi went to yamaha and won, that the yamaha was a bad bike. but was it really? Biaggi was winning races and podiuming on it, it wasn't the best bike, it still isn't, but it was on the same level. Could Rossi do it on a suzuki or a kawasaki? I'm gonna have to go with no... none could.

Hey JR welcome back

Biaggi winning on the Yamaha was an absolute miracle for a rider that enjoyed very little success in his GP career. Why do I say this cause he had arguably the best bike in the paddock last year and could not do jack.
When Rossi went to Yamaha his key ally Burgess put a bike together that w/Rossi riding it won.
The M1 is still a shitty bike compared to the rest. Want evidence?? Edwards, Checa, or Melandri can't or couldn't win anything with it.

And Giberhoe was never a good rider, want evidence?? How about the last two year w/good bikes.


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