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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-26-2008, 08:25 AM Thread Starter
 
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Lightbulb Updated electronics but no carbon fibre for 2009 Yamaha M1

Updated electronics but no carbon fibre for 2009 Yamaha M1

Thursday, 23 October 2008

Yamaha´s Masao Furusawa has given an insight into the key developments for the 2009 M1, but does not foresee a switch to carbon fibre frame any time soon.


Improving on the best bike of the season is always a tough task, and expectations are high for the 2009 Yamaha M1. The new prototype will make its first appearance on track at Valencia as part of Monday´s post-race test, following on from a postponed scheduled first run-out for 2008 MotoGP World Champion Valentino Rossi after his title win at Motegi.

Yamaha´s Executive Officer of Engineering Operations and one of the driving forces behind the development of the M1, Masao Furusawa pinpoints cornering speed –a problem mentioned by Rossi on numerous occasions- as one of the key focuses of next season´s bike.

`The first year of the 800cc bikes we missed something in the horsepower of the engine. This year we caught back up with the competitiveness,´ says the Japanese executive. `Next year we will be expecting a little bit more and also upgrading the sophisticated electronic system to get faster in cornering.

`We´ve changed a lot of things about the engine so far. Especially with the balance between the power and the fuel efficiency. That was a problem in the first year.´

MotoGP rivals Ducati have made clear that they will use a carbon fibre frame for their 2009 project, but Furusawa is unconvinced by the composite´s potential benefit for the Yamaha machine. He describes carbon fibre as `very nice material for reducing weight, but really hard to adjust. It´s not so flexible, and for this reason I don´t want to use it for the M1.´

Also open to flexibility is the time scale between the passing down of new developments to the Tech 3 Yamaha satellite outfit. This year Colin Edwards and James Toseland have received upgrades only a short time after factory riders Rossi and Jorge Lorenzo, a setup that Furusawa would like to see continue next season with the unchanged lineups.

`There will be a little delay in the Tech 3 team getting the developments, but I would like to keep them on the same bike as the factory team,´ he comments.

Furusawa will accompany Shigeto Kitagawa (Senior Manager Technical Development) and Masahiko Nakajima (Fiat Yamaha Team Director and 2008 YZR-M1 Project Leader) in giving a presentation of the current MotoGP machine at the Valencia circuit on Friday.

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2008/U...2009+Yamaha+M1
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-26-2008, 09:34 PM
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I was watching the race yesterday when they mentioned that they had the Ducati Carbon Frame in the pits. Stoner wanted to try out the carbon fiber frame (two day test) before getting his operation done as he would be out of action for about two months.


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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-27-2008, 12:10 AM
 
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Man I am not sold on that carbon frame idea... hasn't it been done before?
Maybe the technology today may make for a successful implementation, but I have to agree with Yamaha... not that they need me in agreement

But Carbon wouldn't provide any flex in the frame... something that can be controlled with aluminum... just an educated guess, but I have heard in the past that the right amount of flex is needed in the frame and some teams revert back to a more flexible design from a more rigid frame...
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-27-2008, 12:15 AM Thread Starter
 
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We will see how well it works in a few hours.

Warp, yeah Monday and Tuesday are testing for all the new bikes with new riders and new Bridgestone.

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-27-2008, 12:50 AM
 
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are the tests televised across the pond?
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-27-2008, 12:55 AM Thread Starter
 
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Not here.

By the way, I think only Ducati and Yamaha have the 2009 prototype ready, and maybe Honda too. But I didn't hear anything from Kawasaki and Suzuki though.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-27-2008, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by racerraul View Post
Man I am not sold on that carbon frame idea... hasn't it been done before?
Maybe the technology today may make for a successful implementation, but I have to agree with Yamaha... not that they need me in agreement

But Carbon wouldn't provide any flex in the frame... something that can be controlled with aluminum... just an educated guess, but I have heard in the past that the right amount of flex is needed in the frame and some teams revert back to a more flexible design from a more rigid frame...
Right and wrong about carbon fibre and flex. Apparently CF is much better than aluminum at absordbing frequencies that are in teh same range as the ones you get with chatter. CF is very popular in downhill mountainbiking because of the better way it absorbes bumps etc.
It is way harder to change though as you need to do a whole new frame instead of altering the old one.
They migth suceed but it might take a while though.
Interesting it is anyway.


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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-27-2008, 05:22 AM Thread Starter
 
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Gustav, I'm not sure if you can compare it to a mountain bike frame, because it is a lot thinner than a frame of a motorbike.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-27-2008, 08:02 AM
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Gustav, I'm not sure if you can compare it to a mountain bike frame, because it is a lot thinner than a frame of a motorbike.
It is not the frame in itself but the actual material and it´s posibilities. You can make an aluminum frame that is stiff as hell as well as one that flexes.


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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-27-2008, 03:01 PM
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adjusting the weave of the carbon can definitely be used to adjust the damping properties and directions. There's no question of that.

Thing is that the Ducati's trellis doesn't really suffer from chatter the way the extrusion frames do in my experience. It's definitely a bouncy bike but the oscillations are on the close order of 2-10hz from my observations, and oil channel shock absorbers generally perform quite well up to ~30hz give or take. Nomatter how you cut it tho, Stoners death wobble can definitely be solved with an oil shock just as well or better than it can be by tuning with weave angles. Not to mention the shocks are adjustable at the track, don't have to phone back to Bologna to tell them to make you a new frame with a 3* different weave angle.

that said. I'm quite sure they've looked at it harder than I have, and I'm interested to see their solutions. They're familiar with it as it was a Ducati owned company that last tried a carbon frame in GP and had it come apart under their noses. Only people that could get it competative while still using that design was Eddie Lawson via use of racecraft and Alex Barros via the use of a fire in his belly approximatly the size of the Hiroshima explosion.

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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-27-2008, 07:27 PM
 
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It is not the frame in itself but the actual material and it´s posibilities. You can make an aluminum frame that is stiff as hell as well as one that flexes.
Precisely... I didn't think that possible with Carbon Fiber due to the amount needed to make it strong enough to be used as a frame...

But hey, if its possible now... all the better.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-27-2008, 08:00 PM
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depends on the design and loads, CF is generally ingredibly strong, but lacks rigidity. Meaning it ideally should be loaded in tension wherever possible. That is what John Britten did in his design, molded the CF pre-tensioned like a suspension bridge.

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-27-2008, 11:01 PM
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All I know is you want some flex just how much remains to be seen. a CF frame would look bada$$ thought!.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 12:55 AM
 
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depends on the design and loads, CF is generally ingredibly strong, but lacks rigidity. Meaning it ideally should be loaded in tension wherever possible. That is what John Britten did in his design, molded the CF pre-tensioned like a suspension bridge.
Dewd was ahead of his time... may he RIP.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 04:21 AM
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Dewd was ahead of his time... may he RIP.
yes sir, far far ahead of it.

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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:17 PM
 
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I have shots of the V1000 from Daytona in '94. It was there in Black & Yellow... bad ass!!!!

Here is a little tribute to the man...
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 07:41 PM
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That bike is proof that a single man with a work ethic and a functioning brain can come up with better stuff than mega-corporations with millions to piss away on whatever they feel like.

HAIL TO THE KING!!

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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-28-2008, 10:11 PM
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That bike is proof that a single man with a work ethic and a functioning brain can come up with better stuff than mega-corporations with millions to piss away on whatever they feel like.
Little guy embarrassing the hell out of the giants


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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-29-2008, 01:07 AM
 
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I still look at it and wonder why it doesn't look as old to me as it really is...

timeless...
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