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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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600gp technical regulations

FIM Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix
Replacement Regulations for 250cc Class as from 2011 (Moto2)

The Grand Prix Commission, composed of Messrs. Carmelo Ezpeleta (Dorna, Chairman), Claude Danis (FIM), Hervé Poncharal (IRTA) and Takanao Tsubouchi (MSMA), in the presence of M. Paul Butler (Secretary of the meeting), in a meeting held yesterday in Barcelona, unanimously decided to introduce the following amendments to the Road Racing World Championship Grand Prix Regulations - application as from 2011.


Replacement Regulation for 250cc Class from 2011 (Moto2)


Technical Regulations:

1. Engine

1.1 4-stroke engines only.
1.2 Engine capacity: maximum 600cc.
1.3 4 cylinders maximum.
1.4 No oval pistons.
1.5 Engines must be normally aspirated. No turbo-charging, no super-charging.
1.6 Engine speed limited to maximum: 16,000 rpm. 4-cylinder engines
15,500 rpm. 3-cylinder engines
15,000 rpm. 2-cylinder engines
An electronic system supplied by the Organisers will be permanently attached to monitor and control
engine speed.
1.7 Pneumatic valve operation is not permitted.
1.8 Inlet and Exhaust valves must be of conventional type (reciprocating poppet valves).
1.9 Variable valve timing or variable valve lift systems are not permitted.
1.10 Only wet-sump type engine lubrication systems are permitted.
1.11 Minimum weight of complete engine with throttle body, dry:
53 kg 4-cylinder
50 kg 3-cylinder
47 kg 2 cylinder

2. Inlet & Fuel System

2.1 Variable-length inlet tract systems are not permitted.
2.2 Only one throttle control valve per cylinder is permitted. No other moving devices are permitted in the
inlet tract before the engine intake valve.
2.3 Throttle bodies will have a maximum internal diameter (must be perfectly circle except for the area of
dent or groove to allow the injector to come out) at engine side out-let of:
42 mm for 4-cylinder
48 mm for 3-cylinder
59 mm for 2-cylinder
2.4 Fuel injectors will be restricted to a defined type (tba, based on cost).
2.5 Fuel pressure must not exceed 5.0 bar.
2.6 No artificial cooling of intake air or fuel.
2.7 Only air or air/fuel mixture is permitted in the induction tract and combustion chamber.
2.8 No direct fuel injection into the cylinder/head/combustion chamber.
2.9 Fuel specification will be for standard unleaded fuel (commercially available EU-compliant "pump fuel").

3. Exhaust system

3.1 Variable length exhaust systems are not permitted.
3.2 Noise limit will be a maximum of 120 dB/A, measured in a static test.


4. Transmission

4.1 A maximum of 6 gearbox speeds is permitted.
4.2 A maximum of 3 alternate gear ratios for each gearbox speed, and 2 alternate ratios for the primary
drive gear is permitted. Teams will be required to declare the gearbox ratios for each gear used at the
beginning of the season.
4.3 Electro-mechanical or electro-hydraulic clutch actuating systems are not permitted.

5. Ignition, Electronics & Data-Logging

5.1 Data logger system will be supplied by the series Organizer.
5.2 Only the ECU/fuel injection control units supplied by the series Organiser are allowed to be fitted
to the motorcycle. Electronic control units include the timing transponder, engine RPM control,
and datalogger systems. No other electronic control or datalogging systems will be allowed on the
motorcycle.
The price of ECU unit made by each engine manufacturer must be equal to or less than
JPY75,000 (about Euro650).

6. Chassis

6.1 Chassis will be a prototype, the design and construction of which is free within the constraints of the
FIM Grand Prix Technical Regulations. The frame, swing-arm, fuel tank, seat and cowling are
forbidden to use from a non-prototype as series production road-going motorcycle.
6.2 Minimum Total Weight: 135kg for 4-cylinder
130kg for 3-cylinder
125kg for 2-cylinder
6.3 No carbon brake discs.

7. Wheels & Tyres

7.1 No carbon composite wheels.
7.2 The maximum permitted wheel rim width is: Front 4.00"
Rear 6.00" or 6.25"
7.3 The only permitted wheel rim diameter is: Front 17"
Rear 17"
7.4 The number of slick tyres allocated to each rider per event will be controlled.

8. Materials & Construction

8.1 Construction materials will be limited to exclude expensive "non-conventional" materials and
manufacturing methods (a list will be issued).
8.2 The following components must be made from iron-based alloys:
Valve springs, camshafts, crankshafts, connecting rods, piston pins, brake discs.
8.3 Engine crankcases and cylinder heads must be made from cast aluminium alloys.
8.4 Pistons must be made from an aluminium alloy.

9. General

9.1 Number of machines: the team can scrutineer only one motorcycle per rider.
9.2 Number of engines: a maximum of 2 complete engines per rider is permitted at any event. Teams will
be required to register engine serial numbers at Technical Control on the day before the first practice.
9.3 Apart from the above regulations, all other construction criteria, dimensions and specifications are as
per the FIM Grand Prix Regulations.

9.4 The engine (excluding exhaust, throttle bodies and ECU) used in a race is available to be purchased
by another competitor in the same race for a fixed price of ?20,000 (Euro). Such purchase request
must be made in writing to Race Direction within the protest period, that is within 60 minutes after the
official end of the race. The transaction and delivery will be completed immediately at the end of the
60 minute protest period and will be underwritten by IRTA. Teams refusing to sell when presented
with a valid request will be disqualified.

HAIL TO THE KING!!

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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 08:17 PM Thread Starter
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Of note:
Section 1:

section 1.6 is already well behind current 600cc production bike engine technology, as is section 1.10

Sections 1.7, 1.8 and 1.9 basicly ensure that no new engine technology is going to come from this class.

Section 2:
Section 2.1 is already obsolete, but will make the control ECU mentioned in section 5 substantially cheaper and easier to produce.

Section 2.3 is obsolete in the 1000cc class, I don't follow the 600's close enough to know if it's already gone there or not, but the ZX10 has been using oval throttle bodies for some time now.

2.4 is a wee bit vague imo.

2.5, 5 bar aughta be lots for a conventional multiport EFI system (which are going the way of the dinosaur even faster than Carbs where 10 years ago) they're trying to prevent semi-direct injection systems here.

2.6-7: no nitrous or forced induction by means of chilling the fuel. Standard forced induction is already banned in the over running GP regulations.

2.8: no DFI... way to go asshats, DFI is pretty clearly the way of the future, it's smoother, cleaner, more efficient, all things you supposedly care about, but you're banning the tech.

2.9: Euro fuel only, way to run an international series.

Section 3:

Trombone exhausts are banned, 120dB, substantially louder than the 2-strokes were allowed to be. This plus the lower pulseband of the 4-stroke (especially at those revs) means they're gonna be LOUD and it's gonna carry a loooong ways. They're pretty vague about how they're gonna measure it too.

Section 4:
4.1 no 9 speeds gearboxes <glares at Yamaha>
4.2 limiting gearbox ratios available. This is gonna make things difficult if you're hoping to develope either chassis or engine thru the season.
4.3 no electronic clutches (no sneaking traction control in here.)

Section 5:
5.1 Spec datalogger!
5.2 Spec ECU/transponder, priced in yen? wtf so we've got euro fuel and japanese ECU's

Section 6:
6.1 "prototype" chassis. awfully loose definition, someone's gonna run into trouble here.
6.2 weight specs photocopied from 500gp regs 10 years ago.
6.3 No carbon carbon brakes (another avenue of developement fubar)

Section 7:
Wheel sizes are superbike standard, these machines will be faster than the 250's are on account of this alone. No BST's

Section 8:
8.1: lets see the list, and lets see how you're gonna police it.
8.2: "iron based alloys" so 51% iron and 49% whatever you want is ok? Inconel would be ok? Ya this is gonna cut cost big I'm sure....
8.3: "aluminum alloys" coming from a guy that worked in the aluminum industry, that's pretty vague. I've seen titanium alloys that I could classify as aluminum without losing mechanical properties.
8.4: round aluminum pistons, this isn't that big a deal I don't forsee anybody playing with this when the bore/stroke of all these engines will be relativly close and there's a claim rule. You could sneak metal matrix into that definition surely, but at the cost and when somebody else out there might actually be able to use those pistons I don't think anyone will try it. You never know tho, Honda can be wild with stuff like that.

Section 9:

this is the good shit, 1 bike per rider weekend, 2 engines. if you wad your bike in FP1, you're up shit creek.

9.3: no streamlining assholes, I knew you were thinking it!

9.4 claim rule for engines, 20 grand euros, overseen by Poncharal. You refuse to sell and you're DQ'd.

expect a gentlemans agreement among the Japanese manufacturers on this one.

HAIL TO THE KING!!

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-11-2008, 11:34 PM
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Yeah some of those rules seem quite odd, I was just looking at that myself.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 01:41 AM
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A pile of crap.


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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 04:16 AM Thread Starter
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I've seen messier regulations forsure, but they do seem a little cobbled together.

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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 07:21 AM
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some of them seem stupid

no variable valve timing
no variable length intakes
must have round throttle bodies

come on, some production bikes have this stuff already. So much for pushing bike development


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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 10:49 AM
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This is NASCAR style , and it phuckin sucks big time. I hope this is a joke and turns out to be nothing more then rubbish..

it makes no sence like said before most of the stuff banned is already on bikes frorm the factory. the buy out rule is nuts so someone wants your engine you don't want to sell it ,now you are DQ'ed?? .. its got to be a joke.

Last edited by Mr.; 12-12-2008 at 10:52 AM.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 01:41 PM
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And people say that the 250 class is dead. Look at this list of teams and riders that will or probably will race next year.

Metis Gilera
Marco Simoncelli (Gilera RSA)
Roberto Locatelli (Gilera RSA o LE)

Mapfre Aspar
Alvaro Bautista (Aprilia RSA)
Mike Di Meglio (Aprilia LE)

WRB
Hector Barbera (Aprilia RSA)
Axel Pons (Aprilia LE)

Balatonring Team
Gabor Talmacsi (Aprilia RSA o LE)

Emmi CaffèLatte Emmi JS
Thomas Luthi (Aprilia RSA)
Lukas Pesek (Aprilia LE)

AB Cardion
Karel Abraham (Aprilia RSA)

Team Toth
Mattia Pasini? (Aprilia RSA)
Imre Toth (Aprilia LE)

JIR Honda Scot
Hiroshi Aoyama (Honda RSW)
Raffaele De Rosa (Honda RSW)

Stop & Go/Thai Honda PTT Sag
Ratthapark Wilairot (Honda RSW)
? (Honda RSW)

Team WTR
Alex Baldolini (Aprilia LE)

Racing Team Germany
Bastien Chesaux (Honda RSW)
Toni Wirsing? Robert Muresan? (Honda RSW)

Aprilia Madrid
Hector Faubel (Aprilia LE)
Stevie Bonsey (Aprilia LE)

Team Hernandez
Manuel Hernandez (Aprilia LE)

CIP Motorcycles
Shoya Tomizawa (Honda RSW)
? (Honda RSW)

Team Campetella?
Aleix Espargarò? (Aprilia LE)


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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 05:51 PM
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They call this new class Moto2 (sounds like a bad video game?)

Maybe becourse 600GP would sound wrong becourse of production based engines. So the name of this tread is wrong I say.

The class should be called "600 production engines with prototype chassis"!

EZPELETA DIMISIÓN!
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-12-2008, 06:01 PM
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There is more teams that maybe will come next year in 250GP. The Chinese team is one that is missing on the list. But have to wait to see witch team that can go next year with this economy crisis now. There use to be teams that seek start but dont get it. Racing Team Germany did seek for this year and Pirate Racing to. There could be more teams if DORNA didnt stop them. There is some politics about it also. To much team in 250GP means that there will be more money to pay out. That do the MotoGP teams dont like. So you must bring a lot of money to DORNA if you want a start in GP's. The two German 250GP team did get denied this year with the reason that there was one German team in 125GP so they did cover that area for the televisions..

One reason why there wil be more bikes in 250GP is that the team is preparing for the new class. They have the organisation ready in 2 years time then. That is the reason why JIR will have 2 bikes next year .They did tell that in a magazine.

And now when Honda did get there new class they can support with 8 bikes next year. Was only 2 bikes this year. They even promissed to update there "Honda Special kit" (A-kit) for 2009 now..

In WSS600 I think that some bikes can rev up to 17.000rpm.

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Last edited by Axxexs; 12-12-2008 at 06:19 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-14-2008, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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Good to hear from you Axxexs, always good to have your input.

And ya, I agree, this is kinda retarded.

I'm of the mind that JUST a claim rule is enough, that encourages manufacturers to find cheap ways to make fast technology, not to discourage tech period.

The one upshot is that this is Dorna. The rules likely won't last more than 5 years.

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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-14-2008, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
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Oh, and Axxexs, I call it 600gp 'cause I call "motoGP" 800gp.

To me, "MotoGP" means "bikes with different formulas running together (500's and 990's)" since the rules excluded the different formulas, it's back to 800gp, same as it was 500gp before that. 600gp it'll be, unless they allow the 250's to run then I'll agree to calling it MotoGP2 (indeed, sounds like a shit video game)

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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 12-15-2008, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior View Post
Oh, and Axxexs, I call it 600gp 'cause I call "motoGP" 800gp.

To me, "MotoGP" means "bikes with different formulas running together (500's and 990's)" since the rules excluded the different formulas, it's back to 800gp, same as it was 500gp before that. 600gp it'll be, unless they allow the 250's to run then I'll agree to calling it MotoGP2 (indeed, sounds like a shit video game)
Amen Brotha ,I wish the clock could turn back to the first year of motogp with the new 4strokes. This new class sounds very damaging for the sport as a hole..
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-03-2009, 02:29 PM
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Pics of BQRs first Moto2 prototype. Honda (street engine) with about 140 bhp.













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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-03-2009, 11:01 PM
 
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Should I be afraid to admit I like it... or rather... looks cool?

I mean, its no 250... but doesn't look that bad. 140bhp? Hows that compare to a 250gp?
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post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-04-2009, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
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Should I be afraid to admit I like it... or rather... looks cool?

I mean, its no 250... but doesn't look that bad. 140bhp? Hows that compare to a 250gp?
BQR says 137kg of this bike. 2kg more then minimum of the rules. 140hp/137kg= 1,02hp to 1kg

Aprilia say 101kg for there RSA and over 111hp. 111hp/101kg= 1,09hp to 1kg.

When Moto2 get 150hp they are equal in hp/kg. That whant take to long time to get I guess.

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post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-06-2009, 11:07 AM
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I'm starting to mourn the loss of 250gp already. I'm going to miss the 2 strokes. I'm sorry that they feel the need to change that class.
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post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-06-2009, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1rider View Post
I'm starting to mourn the loss of 250gp already. I'm going to miss the 2 strokes. I'm sorry that they feel the need to change that class.
we all do man.

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