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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
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Moto 1 class instead of MotoGP in 2011?

Just read about this on motogp matters, what do you guys think?

The radical drop in the size of the MotoGP grid has everyone inside MotoGP worried. First Kawasaki officially withdrew, leaving only Marco Melandri on the Hayate in the class, then Grupo Francisco Hernando pulled out of sponsoring Sete Gibernau's GFH team, dropping the number of entries from 18 to 17. Add to that the shenanigans surrounding Yuki Takahashi's replacement by Gabor Talmacsi, after Talmacsi was able to bring funds to the cash-strapped team, and the picture of a series in crisis is complete.

Clearly something has to be done, to reduce costs and to expand the number of bikes on the grid. Last week at the Sachsenring, the Grand Prix Commission met to discuss the situation, and Dorna CEO Carmelo Ezpeleta launched the idea of a two-tier system, allowing bikes with prototype chassis with engines based on production bikes to race against the current generation of fully factory supported prototype 800s. The story was unearthed by Paolo Scalera of the Italian sports daily Corriere dello Sport, and senior MotoGP journalist Michael Scott in last week's issue of GPWeek opined that the move was probably a bullying tactic by Ezpeleta, aimed at forcing the factories into coming up with a counterproposal.

It seems the thought of racing against production-based engines has done exactly that. At Donington, Tech 3 boss and head of IRTA Herve Poncharal spoke extensively to MotoGPMatters.com, covering a wide range of subjects. One of the subjects he discussed at length was the cost-cutting proposals put forward by the MSMA to counter the exodus of teams from the premier class. He revealed that as Mike Scott had predicted, the MSMA had offered to lease engines only to MotoGP teams at a much more affordable price, allowing them to build their own prototype chassis around the engine.

Poncharal confirmed that Ezpeleta had launched the idea of using production engines at the Grand Prix Commission in Germany, saying, "Carmelo proposed [the idea]. Because of the Moto2 class, because it was a big success, then we were thinking 'what can we do to make it cheaper in the MotoGP class' and we thought 'OK, why can't we do Moto1 like the first Moto2 project?' Start from a production 1000cc engine, and have everything else full prototype, like in Moto2."

"So this idea we threw on the table, asking the MSMA 'What do you think?'. They came back with a proposal that they might be in the position from 2011 to supply engines only, 800cc prototype engines, at a really affordable cost."

When asked whether the Team KR bike was an example of this, Poncharal replied, "Exactly! But they are now thinking to do it, all of them, maybe not Suzuki, but all of the ones who are supplying the independent teams Ducati Honda and Yamaha, at an affordable cost. This is an idea, but they have been asking us to wait until Indianapolis to come with a real strong proposal."

The Grand Prix Commission is expected to meet here on Saturday, to discuss issues surrounding the number of sealed engines, but the big news, the news about the future of the MotoGP class, will have to wait until the end of August and the Donington Grand Prix.


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Last edited by R1Lover; 07-25-2009 at 10:55 PM. Reason: added paragraphs
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 07:31 PM
 
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Well I know the fans without any real sense of financial stress, and I say that jokingly despite some not giving a real shit, will cry foul.

I am in all honestly in agreement with anything that will provide more party, more racers and a better show. Well are missing all of that at this point. Well... maybe if we remove Rossi things might be a bit more interesting but still... in the current scheme of things a privateer team has no real shot of winning a race right now, unlike WSBK,

If running a controlled mill levels the playing field and makes it affordable for more riders and sponsors to enter the league because it gives their names a shot at being tied with a race winner... I am all for it.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-24-2009, 07:52 PM
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I don't see why it'd be against the rules as they stand.

I still think the FIM fucked up big when they ran WCM out of the championship.

HAIL TO THE KING!!

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-25-2009, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior View Post

I still think the FIM fucked up big when they ran WCM out of the championship.
Could you elaborate? I'm not aware this situation. I've been watching for some years now but don't know about "WCM"?

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-25-2009, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R4Ltony View Post
Could you elaborate? I'm not aware this situation. I've been watching for some years now but don't know about "WCM"?

IIRC they took a R1 as a jumping off point to make a 990 cc motogp bike .It didnt pass prototype rules.

technically not a prototype because of its origins but far from the original design . I think it had non stock firing order, frame pistons ,(obviously) , almost no stock parts lol

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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-25-2009, 10:56 PM
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I think they know they need to do something for sure.... either way is fine as long as they get some talent and teams that can compete with the top 10.

Adding more riders that are going to be backmarkers is not going to do anything imo.



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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-26-2009, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by macattack View Post
IIRC they took a R1 as a jumping off point to make a 990 cc motogp bike .It didnt pass prototype rules.

technically not a prototype because of its origins but far from the original design . I think it had non stock firing order, frame pistons ,(obviously) , almost no stock parts lol
ya the early prototypes used all prototype parts, but it was like a NASCAR engine is to a small block chevy/ford/dodge, the parts will bolt down to each other but the similarity ends there. Anyhow I guess they had some casting problems in the early days so they used "production" R1 barrels for a couple of races. Which promted the FIM to make it's first official attendance in more than 10 fucking years so they could show up and disqualify some guys that were coming dead fucking last anyways.

forgive the language, I'm more than a little passionate about it. That was a good team that thru lack of sponsorship/sponsor friendly riders, went from world title contenders, to being run out of the paddock in... 3 years? 5 if you count the full drain spiralling with the "V6" that Blata was gonna build for them.

I really have mixed feelings on changing the rules just now tho. It's something I'd have to sit down and look at some numbers before I pulled the trigger. On one hand I can see changing it to allow some fresh blood into the class, on the other hand, that fresh blood is going to be thoroughly stomped by the Yamaha and Ducati bikes anyways, and not many people are going to sign up and fork out to get their ass kicked in the top class when there's no sponsorship money in it. In F1 even backmarker teams make damned good money. Not so in MotoGP.

Cost controlling measures? there's no such thing, you make the rules and the teams will spend the same amount just in different places. The budgets never ever go down. Best case scenario to "level the field" is to leave the fucking rulebook alone and let the big spenders start to run into the wall of diminishing returns, the 990's were just getting there when they got cancelled. 800's will presumably start to get their shortly (Simoncelli's 250gp qualifying time in Germany would have put him on the front row for the 800 race.)

But really, by leaving it alone you're protecting the guys that are in the sport but not quite competative.... at the moment, that really is just Suzuki, Kwacker are already out, KR and WCM are long gone, the privateer Hondas will always be privateer Honda's, they don't do shit for developement work for themselves. The "wildest" developement I ever saw there was Pons stuffing 01 NSR500 engines in '00 chassis becuase he felt HRC had made a wrong turn in '01. His results vindicated him IMO but that's off topic. So is it worth leaving the rules stagnant to help out a single team that really should be running for the damned hills? The fact that the Yosh GSXR's have been able to give the Suzuki GP effort a very honest run for it's money at Laguna (on race tires, no Q's in AMA) I think shows just the level of "commitment" that Suzuki are putting forth in GP. Or the skill of their team. Either way, I don't think they're gonna stick around much longer.

Meanwhile, the mass exodus to WSBK continues. 2 new manufacturers this year, full grids at every race. What does next season hold?

HAIL TO THE KING!!

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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-26-2009, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior View Post
ya the early prototypes used all prototype parts, but it was like a NASCAR engine is to a small block chevy/ford/dodge, the parts will bolt down to each other but the similarity ends there. Anyhow I guess they had some casting problems in the early days so they used "production" R1 barrels for a couple of races. Which promted the FIM to make it's first official attendance in more than 10 fucking years so they could show up and disqualify some guys that were coming dead fucking last anyways.

forgive the language, I'm more than a little passionate about it. That was a good team that thru lack of sponsorship/sponsor friendly riders, went from world title contenders, to being run out of the paddock in... 3 years? 5 if you count the full drain spiralling with the "V6" that Blata was gonna build for them.

I really have mixed feelings on changing the rules just now tho. It's something I'd have to sit down and look at some numbers before I pulled the trigger. On one hand I can see changing it to allow some fresh blood into the class, on the other hand, that fresh blood is going to be thoroughly stomped by the Yamaha and Ducati bikes anyways, and not many people are going to sign up and fork out to get their ass kicked in the top class when there's no sponsorship money in it. In F1 even backmarker teams make damned good money. Not so in MotoGP.

Cost controlling measures? there's no such thing, you make the rules and the teams will spend the same amount just in different places. The budgets never ever go down. Best case scenario to "level the field" is to leave the fucking rulebook alone and let the big spenders start to run into the wall of diminishing returns, the 990's were just getting there when they got cancelled. 800's will presumably start to get their shortly (Simoncelli's 250gp qualifying time in Germany would have put him on the front row for the 800 race.)

But really, by leaving it alone you're protecting the guys that are in the sport but not quite competative.... at the moment, that really is just Suzuki, Kwacker are already out, KR and WCM are long gone, the privateer Hondas will always be privateer Honda's, they don't do shit for developement work for themselves. The "wildest" developement I ever saw there was Pons stuffing 01 NSR500 engines in '00 chassis becuase he felt HRC had made a wrong turn in '01. His results vindicated him IMO but that's off topic. So is it worth leaving the rules stagnant to help out a single team that really should be running for the damned hills? The fact that the Yosh GSXR's have been able to give the Suzuki GP effort a very honest run for it's money at Laguna (on race tires, no Q's in AMA) I think shows just the level of "commitment" that Suzuki are putting forth in GP. Or the skill of their team. Either way, I don't think they're gonna stick around much longer.

Meanwhile, the mass exodus to WSBK continues. 2 new manufacturers this year, full grids at every race. What does next season hold?



It couldn't be summed up more precisely .




I was wondering how "they" expect any team to get into the game at this level and price without doing what wcm did.

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