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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-21-2005, 02:17 AM Thread Starter
 
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F1: FIA blasts Michelin teams for 'damaging F1.'

MONDAY 20TH JUNE 2005

A strongly worded statement from Formula One's governing body the FIA has slammed the seven Michelin teams for refusing to compete in the United States Grand Prix.

All the teams bar Ferrari, Jordan and Minardi elected to withdraw from the race on safety grounds after Michelin said it could not guarantee that there would be no repeat of the tyre failure which resulted in Ralf Schumacher going into the wall at turn 13 during free practice on Friday in an accident which mirrored the incident twelve months again that left the German driver nursing spinal injuries.

That left American fans angry at the sight of just six cars taking to the grid for the start of the race and had put question marks over the long-term future of the sport in the United States, with many fans questioned both during and after the race insisting that they would not be returning to the event in the future.

Ahead of the race, the Michelin teams had suggested the use of a chicane to slow the cars down and reduce the load on the tyres through the high speed banked corner that brings the cars back onto the Indianapolis oval but the FIA refused to allow a chicane to be introduced - claiming that it was both unfair on the Bridgestone teams to be penalised when they had done nothing wrong and would also lead to separate safety issues with the cars set up to run on a circuit which would have had totally different characteristics if a chicane had been put in place.

The governing body also attacked the teams for not bringing a back-up tyre which would have allowed them to take part in the race, albeit at lower race speeds and said it had offered to slow the Michelin cars in the final turn in order to reduce the risk of a tyre failure, with the FIA monitoring speeds and penalising anyone deemed to be using excessive speed. This was dismissed by the teams unless the Bridgestone runners were faced with the same penalty which was where the suggestion of a chicane was raised to try and ensure what the Michelin team felt was a 'level playing field' for the weekend.

However the FIA was quick to point out that it was not going to change rules or make alterations just because some teams didn't have the correct equipment with which to race.

The FIA statement in full reads as follows:

"Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate to clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.

"At Indianapolis we were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner. We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess. However, the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount. They suggested a chicane.

"The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules. The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down. The Michelin teams' lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One. It must also be remembered that the FIA wrote to all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1, 2005, to emphasise that 'tyres should be built to be reliable under all circumstances.'

"A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high-speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally - from ultra-high speed (because of turn 13) to very slow and twisting. It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes. It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures.

"The reason for this debacle is clear. Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable. Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis. They subsequently announced they were flying in new tyres from France but then claimed that these too were unsafe.

"What about the American fans? What about Formula One fans world-wide? Rather than boycott the race the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in turn 13. The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race. As it is, by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped the Bridgestone runners, they have damaged themselves and the sport.

"It should also be made clear that Formula One Management and Indianapolis Motor Speedway, as commercial entities, can have no role in the enforcement of the rules."

In a separate statement the FIA confirmed that Renault, McLaren, Williams, Toyota, Red Bull, Sauber and BAR have been summoned to a meeting of the FIA Motor Sport Council to discuss the situation which developed at Indianapolis [see separate story].



The Michelin teams pull into the pits while six cars line up for the start of the United States Grand Prix
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-22-2005, 11:23 PM
 
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it wasn't the teams' fault. The teams running at a reduced speed through turn 13 would cause major problems with the Bridgestone teams running full speed. Whence Michelin did not give the OK for it's tires, all future responsibility lay with the teams. If something had gone wrong and a driver/fan was killed, all liability would have gone to the teams instead of the Michelin.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-23-2005, 07:25 AM Thread Starter
 
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It's not FIA's fault either... it's Michelin's fault...
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-23-2005, 09:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogpboy
it wasn't the teams' fault. The teams running at a reduced speed through turn 13 would cause major problems with the Bridgestone teams running full speed. Whence Michelin did not give the OK for it's tires, all future responsibility lay with the teams. If something had gone wrong and a driver/fan was killed, all liability would have gone to the teams instead of the Michelin.
true, and the teams could have thus used any of a number of tricks to overcome this problem.

I'm still wondering why, when only toyota, who wa sadmittedly running a low tire pressure to gain mechanical grip, was having problems, why did all the other teams refuse to participate, even though they had all run for more than the "10 lap life cycle" of the tires in practice.........


hmmmmmmmmmmm
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 10:15 AM
 
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I think it said a few teams (Williams BMW for one) were having problems with the sidewalls of their tires or something, showing significant wear.

When it all comes down to it, it was Michelin's fault for not providing a safe tire as well as a "competition" tire for the race. But after that happened the problem goes into the hands of the FIA, and they failed to resolve it in a manner which would keep F1's dignity intact.

Everyone who is new to the sport is now seeing the bad political nature of F1.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 10:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogpboy
I think it said a few teams (Williams BMW for one) were having problems with the sidewalls of their tires or something, showing significant wear.

When it all comes down to it, it was Michelin's fault for not providing a safe tire as well as a "competition" tire for the race. But after that happened the problem goes into the hands of the FIA, and they failed to resolve it in a manner which would keep F1's dignity intact.

Everyone who is new to the sport is now seeing the bad political nature of F1.
i'm not new to the sport, and all racing organizations are by nature political.
What the FIA did was EXACTLY correct.
ANY change in the course layout would have caused severe problems for any number of reasons, the number one of which is that the track would no longer be homologated, thus, if any incident did happen, and there was ANY kind of lawsuit in an AMERICAN court over it, the FIA would be up shit creek w/o a paddle since they had allowed racing on a circuit configuration that they had not specifically approved as being safe.

This is all a moot point as again, if it were setup the other way, bridgestone shod copetitors would have been forced to compete since they are the minority.

Michelin tried, along with the teams, to make a power play, and because of it, they have sadly alienated the largest single market for marketing they could ever hope to reach.
It was a stupid gamble, and you can bet that come the 29th, some serious words will be issued and some serious penalties handed out.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 12:39 PM
 
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Yes, which will further strengthen the move to GPWC...

I'm not sure if this has any legal consequences, but Tony George DID approve of the chicaine. I don't know if this would shift responsibility unto himself if the FIA also approved it and there was then an accident. But I think George would have taken the risk of having a *Highly unlikely* accident due to the chicaine compared to the *100% for sure* fallout of the US Grand Prix
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogpboy
...But after that happened the problem goes into the hands of the FIA, and they failed to resolve it in a manner which would keep F1's dignity intact.

Everyone who is new to the sport is now seeing the bad political nature of F1.
Since when teams can start blaming the FIA for their own bad equipments? Is that mean the team KR Proton can also blame the FIM when they have problems with some engine parts that caused them to forfeit/miss the Shanghai GP?
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 01:48 PM
 
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I think it is the FIA's issue as a governing body to come up with a solution to a problem that will ultimately hurt it. I did not say that the teams can blame the FIA for the Michelin tires, I'm saying it is the FIA's responsibility to find the best solution to the problem, and what happened on Sunday was not it.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 01:53 PM
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okay maybe i'm dumb, but they are sponsored by michelin right? If michelincouldn't get them safe tires why not BUY the tires they need from the other manufacturers? I mean Michelin wouldn't have gotten bad publicity nor f1. They admited a problem and helped solve it. Or buy the tires from anotehr company and give them to the teams and promise they will be ready and not have it happen again.

no business is perfect...i wouldn't look down on michelin for getting another manufacturers tires for a race then getting theirs fixed up for the next race?


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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 03:17 PM
 
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it was reported that Bridgestone had enough tires to supply "120%" of the teams...but I think it's due to contractual obligations.
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 03:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxcorey
okay maybe i'm dumb, but they are sponsored by michelin right? If michelincouldn't get them safe tires why not BUY the tires they need from the other manufacturers? I mean Michelin wouldn't have gotten bad publicity nor f1. They admited a problem and helped solve it. Or buy the tires from anotehr company and give them to the teams and promise they will be ready and not have it happen again.

no business is perfect...i wouldn't look down on michelin for getting another manufacturers tires for a race then getting theirs fixed up for the next race?
they cannot run other tires.
There are only two manufacturer's approved for F1. Michelin and Bridgestone, and the contract states you can use only the one from the company you deal with.
They are not actually "sponsoired" by the tire manufacturers but rather have contract to run the supplied tires from that manufacturer.


And as far as GPWcx is concerned, it's a nice bluff, but it wont happen.
Without Ferrari, F1 is dead, and they no it, and Ferrari is not interested in GPWC.

Send off Williams, a chassis manufacturer, and Lola or Reynard steps in quickly. Send of BMW or Mercedes, and Audi and Ford/Chevy step right back into the picture.
Ferrari would just as soon that the others do leave, it makes it better for them. The ONLY thing that Ferrari gets out of F1 is money from apparel sales. People do NOT buy cars based upon F1 technology or racing results.

GPWC would last just about as long as the wonderfully short lived Jamsport productions version of Motocross racing, which is to say. NOT AT ALL.

What this will do, much like a large majority of racing associations, is cause an acceleration toward a one tire make rule.
Why?
Because it allows equally safe tires for all vehicles, and makes it easier and less costly for the teams running.
Michelin will bitch about it, cry about it, and claim it's retribution, but in all honesty, they are the ones who received a written communication that clearly stated, several weeks b4 the USGP, that the FIA was concerned with tire longevity, and because of this concern the FIA was asking both tire manufacturers to pay special attention to supplying the safest tires for an event versus the fastest. Michelin failed to bring even one set of tires (allegedly) that were safe enough for the event (again only Toyota had visible issues with the michelin tires), therefore they are at fault and should be punished.
Teams, which wanted to bully the FIA, used a lame excuse of "Michelin told us" to not race in an event where they had previously, in practice routinely exceeded the "10 lap lifetime" of these tires., and as such, they too should be punished.

Again, all i have to say, is if it was the other way around, Bridgstone would have raced, and Michelin would have not allowed any type of modification for "safety" purposes or top slow the cars down.


AS to Tony George oking the change, He was never actually presented with it, so that is false. The michelin temas asked if it would be possible to have one installed and after checking with race technicians, IMS replied that yes they could do so if allowed by the FIA, however the FIA onsite official would not allow it because of all the reason stated above.
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 05:04 PM
 
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90% of Ferrari fans are posers anyways. They have no real interest in the sport other than the name "Ferrari". I don't know if you've seen this and believe it's apparent, but I do. If Ferrari stops doing well (As they have been for the most part previous to Montreal) a lot of these fake fans will leave as well. So monetarily, I don't think the GPWC would suffer any more than they would if the GPWC teams pounced on Ferrari. Also, it seems that Ecclestone is a large benefactor of Ferrari's deep pockets, something that will further alienate the GPWC teams.
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 05:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R1Budha
AS to Tony George oking the change, He was never actually presented with it, so that is false. The michelin temas asked if it would be possible to have one installed and after checking with race technicians, IMS replied that yes they could do so if allowed by the FIA, however the FIA onsite official would not allow it because of all the reason stated above.
Exactly, IMS replied that they would allow the chicaine....

Indy Motor Speedway is Tony George
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 05:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motogpboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by R1Budha
AS to Tony George oking the change, He was never actually presented with it, so that is false. The michelin temas asked if it would be possible to have one installed and after checking with race technicians, IMS replied that yes they could do so if allowed by the FIA, however the FIA onsite official would not allow it because of all the reason stated above.
Exactly, IMS replied that they would allow the chicaine....

Indy Motor Speedway is Tony George
no you misunderstand, Tony George is NOT IMS.
He is the promotor, and the racing officials at IMS were NEVER approached by anyone with a true plan for a chicane. They were approached with the idea of "did they have time to install something in turn 13 between saturday practice and Sunday warm-up". The race official consulted the technical directors and replied that yes given an immediate response, they could install something.
NOTHING WAS EVER SUBMITTED. PERIOD.
Therfore it was never replied in the affirmative that a definitive change could be made.
And why?
Because the FIA race director squashed the idea before it got to more than a "what if" stage. And he did so for all the reasons stated above.

Therefore TONY GEORGE (promotor), and IMS (race directors and technical directors) never agreed to install anything. And there is serious doubt that it could have been installed with any time for cars to test it,and allow for the necessary technical setup changes that would have been REQUIRED to be made to every car in order to allow SAFE progress through a completely redesigned track section.
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 05:49 PM
 
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I think you ought to take a look at this website clicky

It states clearly that Tony George is the owner of Indianapolis Motor Speedway, he is also the President.
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 05:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by motogpboy
90% of Ferrari fans are posers anyways. They have no real interest in the sport other than the name "Ferrari". I don't know if you've seen this and believe it's apparent, but I do. If Ferrari stops doing well (As they have been for the most part previous to Montreal) a lot of these fake fans will leave as well. So monetarily, I don't think the GPWC would suffer any more than they would if the GPWC teams pounced on Ferrari. Also, it seems that Ecclestone is a large benefactor of Ferrari's deep pockets, something that will further alienate the GPWC teams.
HAHA.
Sure the Miilion plus Italian people who turn out for the Italian rounds of F1 are posers. Yep you nailed it.

NOT.

Ferrari fans in F1 are as fanatical as NASCAR brand and driver loyal fans are. And thats been proven over the entire lifetime of F1.
I seem to recall HUGE crowds turning out to watch Alessi and Berger get their ass handed to them routinely, and they did so in their red and black.

To say that Ferrari fans are posers is akin to calling fans of Man U posers.
Not only wrong, but idiotic in a childish way......

And i know that you know better than that.

Now Ferrari fans in the US, maybe. After all there are very few true devotees of F1 in the US.
And you could probably pack those with more than 4 years worth of watching and historical knowledge into Daytona International Speedway.

I hope they do split off to form the GPWC, it will cause further upheaval and possibly do something good, like bring the real high tech car makers into the sport.

Who wouldn't want to see Bently, Aston Martin, Chevy, Ford, Audi, etc churn out an engineering marvel and put it into F1.

F1 has grown tired by it's very processional nature.
And the only thing that has changed that is the "obnoxiously stupid" rules (to quote the head of williams desing and development) which have slowed down the Ferrari procession of the last few years.

True car makers are not interested in F1 as it has no relatable effect on sales and marketing.
Thus the reason the worlds largest and best car makers are no longer involved.

after all, if porsche can sell cars based on Gt racing, why waste the money on F1, or prototype racing.
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 06:00 PM
 
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Budha you have to look at the bigger picture here. You should join the Speed Message boards where all we talk about is racing. 9 out of 10 people will tell you there is a distinct difference between Pre-1997 Ferrari Fans and 1997-Current Ferrari Fans. I'm not talking about Italians. I'm talking about Ferrari "fans" as a whole. Ferrari is the New York Yankees of F1. People buy/wear/flaunt Ferrari clothes/memorabilia and barely know anything about what they do in F1. It's Ferrari, it's cool to have.

Haven't you ever heard of Fox Racing? Hell, even Alpinestars is getting to be that way.
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 06:06 PM
 
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Budha you have to look at the bigger picture here. You should join the Speed Message boards where all we talk about is racing. 9 out of 10 people will tell you there is a distinct difference between Pre-1997 Ferrari Fans and 1997-Current Ferrari Fans. I'm not talking about Italians. I'm talking about Ferrari "fans" as a whole. Ferrari is the New York Yankees of F1. People buy/wear/flaunt Ferrari clothes/memorabilia and barely know anything about what they do in F1. It's Ferrari, it's cool to have.

Haven't you ever heard of Fox Racing? Hell, even Alpinestars is getting to be that way.
I am a member of the speed boards.

And yes there are those people, same as there are for anything.
But to say that ferrari fans as a whole are posers is stupid, and as i know you know, it's not true.

There are a certain percentage of all fans that are "fans" because it's the thing to do, but worlwide, Ferrari fans are probably in the top twoi or three of the most devoted fans in the world.
Right up there with Red Sox fans/Cubs fans and Man U fans.

So are all the new Red Sox fans posers because they won the world series?
How about all the new fans that the St louis cardinal gained due to the press that Mark McGwire genereated?
or the Cubs fans from Sammy Sosa?

Or the ....on and on


As a group you cannot classify an entire group based on a minority percentage of it.
Otherwise i guess i could say all Suzuki owners are posers, and only buying them due to AMA results.
Or all Honda 600RR owners only bought them by FX results.

Neither is anywhere near the truth and both statements are idiotic to the core.
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-24-2005, 07:25 PM
 
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90% Budha, 90%

I think it's safe to say the large majority of "Ferrari Fans" are not native Italians. It's really impossible to tell the number that are fakes, but I just put a number out there because that's what I believe. In my experience most Ferrari Fans I come across can attribute their feelings because Schumacher has been winning, and the eventual fallout of liking Ferrari to be "cool".

Take a look at Baseball. The Giants have been a winning team the majority of their history, and pretty soon they will be the first team to reach 10,000 wins as a franchise. Yet I highly doubt they have many more fans than the Detroit Tigers. Then you look at F1 and see that Ferrari has an uncanny advantage in number of fans. Do you honestly think that real fans who have a true love of F1 just randomly happen to mostly like Ferrari?

Budha you need to stop looking at this and say it's stupid or idiotic because of the "philosophy" of it all. You can't take a detached view and call my statements "idiotic" when you yourself aren't looking at your own evidence. To me, as I previously stated, the majority of Ferrari fans that I come across do not seem to have an understanding of the sport or where Ferrari came from, they seem to be reduced to the "GO FERRARI GO MICHAEL I'M TIFOSI!!!" hence my dislike of the majority of Ferrari fans.

Concerning bikes, c'mon Budha, look at your own experiences. I know for me, the majority of squids I see ride Gixxers. Yes there are quite a few on R1's, R6's, 636's, etc...but seriously, when was the last time you saw a guy on something like an sv or a ninja 500 and said "shit, that guy's a squid." There are bikes that are more prevalent to be bought by squids because you can look "cool" on them. Lets face it, who the hell buys an SV cuz it looks cool and will get them women? I'm not saying everyone who rides Gixxers are squids, but in my opinion, the majority of squids out there on sportbikes do ride them.

And concerning the 600rr FX commercials...c'mon Budha... Anyone who believes those commercials and goes out and buys a 600rr because of them doesn't know what he's doing.

"What? Never lost a race in FX? That must be like..the top class ever... And it's undefeated! That means it's the coolest and best bike ever, I'm gonna get one."

please.
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