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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-14-2007, 03:56 PM
RacerX85
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Backing It In

I just posted a dissertation on the R1-Forum on backing it in. Enjoy and let me know what you think!

Sliding The Rear 101:

Motorcycle racing, heck just riding, is a very rider specific thing. There are many ways to achieve the same results and the one that you are most comfortable with IS the right one for you. With that said these are the various means by which I slide the rear.

Method 1 (aka showing off):
a) apply front brake moderately
b) pull in clutch
c) apply rear brake until you feel chatter
d) with a strong hold on the bars begin to pivot the bike around your torso (taking weight off the footpegs helps immensely, i.e. support your body using just the bars)
e) rear end steps out and depending on direction you twisted your body either goes left or right
f) pull rear back in line
g) release rear brake
h) rev motor and let out clutch

Explanation: Front brake loads front wheel so you can more easily get the rear to lock up (duh); clutch disengaged allows you to control the amount of rear wheel lock with just the rear brake simplifying things.

Personal observations: Fun and easy to do but be careful not to release the front brake and rear simultaneously while bent out of shape. The sudden weight transfer to the rear while cocked side ways will have the bike buck you. You will probably not highside unless going very fast (70mph+), but it's still no fun and makes you look dumb. I don't use this method on the track for a couple of reasons. First on the track I am braking much harder and a simpler way of sliding the rear is available. Second this method has a great deal of the weight still on the rear tire. Trying to get the rear wheel pulled into line while increasing lean and simultaneously getting it to speed back up to the bike's speed is a nightmare and a recipe for highsiding. I use this method only while more or less straight up and down; aka showing off for the hotties in the convertible mustang.

Method 2 (aka stuff style):
a) apply front brake very very strongly
b) shift down gears and rev match accordingly
c) pivot bike slightly around your torso
d) rear end will step out
e) steer it into the apex

Explanation: The super loaded front end takes all the weight off the rear and makes it unnecessary to use the rear brake to break traction and get the rear sideways, just a strong countersteer is enough.

Personal Observations: I use this method to stuff people. Essentially you blow your brake markers and stand the bike on its nose. The idea is that you get on the inside of the other guy and swing the rear out to pick him up. You kill his line and his mid-corner speed. This allows you time to drag race him out of the corner, and since you are on the inside, you pretty much have control. Due to this the stuff style works best on tight, slow corners where acceleration out of the apex is paramount. I emphasis the need to rev match very well since with so little load on the rear, extra engine braking can turn your nice entry slide into a bars to the lock disaster as the rear end swings around more than you wanted.

Method 3 (aka dirt track style)
a) apply front brake strongly as you normally would at your best pace
b) downshift and rev match normally except for the last gear
c) do not rev match last gear but rather gradually feed the clutch out while you start to counter steer (do NOT pivot the bike here, just countersteer like you normally would with a fair amount of weight on the pegs)
d) rear end will step out and use the clutch to dial in as much slide as you want
e) steer it into the apex

Explanation: The loaded front end allows just a tad bit of traction at the rear wheel, traction that the engine braking can easily over power.

Personal Observations: Unlike the stuff style where your countersteer both affects your lean and your slide, this separates the two so you can play with the rear independently. If I need to slide into a fast corner, I use this method rather than the stuff method because it gives me greater control so I don't highside. This method helps me a lot if my bike is having problems hitting apexes on a particular corner but my set-up is good for the other 90% of the track.

As I said earlier, riding is very rider specific and I have my bikes set up so that they allow me to control the bike in these ways. Someone that jacks up the rear with a very front heavy bias will probably put himself on the ground backing his bike in the way I do. That rider has different techniques for sliding the rear that work best for him. What I wrote will work for most riders, but if your set-up is radical or your riding style is very particular, it may not work so well for you. Like someone else said, ride and play to learn.

EDIT: What I wrote applies to bikes that do NOT have slipper clutches of course. I have yet to track a slipper clutch equipped bike so I won't write about that, BUT if someone likes what I've written and wants to give me a slipper clutch for a 2004 GSX-R 750 so I can investigate...
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-14-2007, 10:22 PM
don't read this
 
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I want video of someone trying this for the first time..



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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 12:59 AM
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AFM #282
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 04:16 PM
don't read this
 
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I mean someone who reads this and then tries it..



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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinn View Post
I mean someone who reads this and then tries it..
give me about two months. gotta wait for the weather warm up a little.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 07:19 PM
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sorry, but i'm with rinn on this one. someone is gonna biff it hardcore trying to pull a rossi


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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-15-2007, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stingray View Post
that's badass....

wish i had that kind of throttle control....


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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-17-2007, 09:42 PM
Glad thats over
 
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That was awesome
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-18-2007, 05:09 PM
 
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good reading, and a very nice vid :+

had to do an emergency back-swing once when the back came up and I almost missed the corner .. kinda happened instinctively, but I never thougt of trying it again.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-19-2007, 03:47 AM
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UH OHHH .. someones gonna crash because of this thread! hahahahahh


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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-19-2007, 04:11 PM
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just don't do it this way

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2007, 12:08 PM
 
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I'm still trying to perfect getting around the track without falling down.
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2007, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STONE View Post
I'm still trying to perfect getting around the track without falling down.
The trick is to go fast enough that the wheels' gyroscopic force balances the bike.
post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-22-2007, 10:06 PM
 
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still working on that part too
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-25-2007, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
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just don't do it this way

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUCH!


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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 10:57 AM
 
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Hey I am still trying to get the guts up and know how to try a track day. Been only riding for 8 months. Any suggestion would be great.
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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 12:35 PM
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I've got a couple:
1) Rest well the night before 8-9 hours of sleep
2) Eat good balanced breakfast that won't weigh you down
3) Bring some fruit and a sandwich for the lunch break
4) Remember to take off all non-essential tidbits on the bike and make sure all maintenance is done
5) Bring air pressure gauge, can of gasoline and all your usual bike tools
6) Start off slow and just let the speed come to you
7) Focus on riding smooth, not fast
8) Enjoy your day
post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 02:27 PM
 
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Does any know of any places that hold track days for the public and beginner riders in this area, west central florida?
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-27-2007, 10:21 PM
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You're welcome...
post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-28-2007, 10:37 AM
 
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Hey Thanks for the info. You guys rock. Is it me or is there a couple of posts missing here?

Last edited by mikes636; 02-28-2007 at 10:41 AM.
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